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Plantation on Cocoa = less food?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by pluto101, Mar 16, 2015.

  1. pluto101

    pluto101 Chieftain

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    Am I missing something here? This is early in game, with no other bonuses:

    In Jungle:

    Cocoa: +3 food, +1 gold
    Banana: +3 food

    In Plantation:
    Cocoa: +1 food +1 production +2 gold
    Banana: +1 food +1 production

    It seems like my plantations aren't adding to the food. I would have thought each would give me four food after the plantation, or am I not reading things right? What's going on here?
     
  2. reddishrecue

    reddishrecue Chieftain

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    The +1 from resources that you get from the plantation are after you build the plantation. You can't build a jungle on resources after they have been turned into plantations.
     
  3. pluto101

    pluto101 Chieftain

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    I mean that, before I chop down the jungle and build the plantation, I'm getting 3 food. After I chop down the jungle and build the plantation, I'm getting +1 food.
     
  4. reddishrecue

    reddishrecue Chieftain

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    The jungle does give +2 food. When on plains the +2 food turn into production instead. If the forest becomes grass then you might end up with +2 food instead. I'm guessing you have +1 food because the resources are on a ground tile.
     
  5. Doktor Vic Tim

    Doktor Vic Tim Chieftain

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    Don't forget the jungle also provides an additional +2 science once you have universities and +1 culture if you have the sacred path pantheon.

    For cocoa you are very conflicted.

    For Bananas, don't improve them.
     
  6. FlorbFnarb

    FlorbFnarb Chieftain

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    Wait...so a banana plantation provides less food than just bananas?
     
  7. reddishrecue

    reddishrecue Chieftain

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    On hills it does and you get more production instead but on grasslands and maybe ground it doesn't.
     
  8. stormtrooper412

    stormtrooper412 Peacemongering Turtlesaur

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    Bananas on grass have a base 3 food, and 2/1 if Plains. Granary adds 1 food, plantation adds 1 and Fertilizer tech adds one, making it a total of 6/0 grass or 5/1 plains. It kind of becomes better in the late game once your science is seriously big anyway but jungle bananas with 4 food and 2 beakers is easily one of the best tiles to have around
     
  9. kaspergm

    kaspergm Warlord

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    Wow this thread is a real mess. People seem to bungle all sorts of different information together here. I think the issues that OP faces is that Jungle (2 food) turns into Plains (1 food, 1 production if flat; 2 production if hills) and hence looses 1 or 2 food when chopped, but I think it would be helpful if someone made a full table of yields before and after of the different tiles.
     
  10. killmeplease

    killmeplease Mk Z on Steam

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    jungles dont add 2 food but replace the tile's terrain yields with 2 food
    so if you chop it you get 2 food (grass) or 1 food 1 production (plains) or 2 production (hill)
    while bananas and other edible bonus resources add 1 food
     
  11. LordBalkoth

    LordBalkoth Chieftain

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    You're losing the Jungle 2 food default (and replacing it with plains 1 food/1 production). And plantations don't give a food bonus until Fertilizer, just one extra gold.

    2 food > 2 science. But that assumes you improve them early -- otherwise probably wait until Fertilizer.

    Or, ideally, plant a Great Scientist on them and get a 3 food/1 production/8 science tile early on.
     
  12. Redaxe

    Redaxe Chieftain

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    This may sound weird but when I chop banana jungle to make a plantation, I get to the plains so I lose 1 food and gain 1 hammer, but once the plantation is finished the hammer disappears and you get the extra 1 food back for a total of 6 food (with fertilizer)
    So somehow that hammer is turning back into food. So maybe a bug or something?
     
  13. Doktor Vic Tim

    Doktor Vic Tim Chieftain

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    I'd argue that making it into a plantation even after fertilizer only adds +1 food and +1 production in total on a flat tile. I do recall plains are always under jungle tiles.

    And of course there are other modifiers. If you're going with Sun God, it's better to plantation those bananas for some crazy food yields early enough. That will quickly compensate the loss of science. On the other hand, if you have a good jungle start, sacred path offers an additional yield you might want to keep instead of making a plantation. And on the third hand, Oral Tradition further adds another possibility, but that one doesn't seem to be picked often...

    EDIT: I'd like to add that if you are in need to production, you're better off turning the jungle bananas into a plantation. +1 hammer is still +1 hammer along with 4 food pre fertiizer. I will keep the GS tip, though if I don't have any sheep.
     
  14. LordBalkoth

    LordBalkoth Chieftain

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    Working as intended, plantations will basically simulate the plains as Grassland.

    As the poster above you noted, a Plantation will always give 6 food if not on a hill when finished.
     
  15. reddishrecue

    reddishrecue Chieftain

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    A hill banana with plantation does give you more food eventually and you also get to end up with the production from the hill.
     
  16. Doktor Vic Tim

    Doktor Vic Tim Chieftain

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    I did not know that. Apologies.
     
  17. pluto101

    pluto101 Chieftain

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    Ok. I think I'm getting it, even though I still think it's BS.

    In my game, I have cocoa on a jungle-covered hill. I don't have fertilizer or anything - by that point in the game, I'd take the science over the food. However, at this early stage, in a capital surrounded by jungle, I'd like some excess food.

    Let's refer to the attached picture of my situation.

    Cocoa provides +1 food and +1 gold. The jungle it's on provides +2 food, for a total tile yield of 3 food, 1 gold. Chopping the jungle reveals the hill my cocoa is on. The hill is +2 production, the cocoa is +1 food and +1 gold, and the plantation appears to add +1 gold, for a total yield of 3 food, 2 production, two gold.

    My question is, does the plantation really not add any food until fertilizer? I would have thought a cocoa plantation would add at least +1 food +1 gold, not just +1 gold.

     
  18. LordBalkoth

    LordBalkoth Chieftain

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    Correct.
     
  19. reddishrecue

    reddishrecue Chieftain

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    Fertilizer adds 1 food to all non watered farms for sure but for plantations it should add 1 food too I believe.
     
  20. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

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    There is no "should" about it. It is explicit:

     

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