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Play by play: A go at Monarch

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by ionize, Jan 28, 2012.

  1. ionize

    ionize Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2011
    Messages:
    60
    Location:
    Cork, Ireland
    Hello everyone,

    I'm ionize a casual Civ3 player. I didn't play C3C for a long time and I want to play some more games now and I want to get beyond Regent. My problem in the past was that I'd start a few games, and I'd also read the story and SG threads as well as strategy stuff.

    After that I always wanted to try all of the learnt at once. This way I often quit playing out of frustration as nothing was working for me. So I'm still awful at Civ3.

    I had the idea of starting a game with my personal settings and keep turn-logs like in the SGs and hope for some feedback from you guys that will help me see my errors and improve upon them.

    From here on out I will start my active game log:

    Initial thoughts:
    1.) I want to try Monarch before going for Emperor. I feel pretty comfortable with Regent by now and I tried Emperor ones (after I read the topic on transitioning from Monarch to Emperor) and lost right away. This is why I want to play a game on Monarch.

    2.) I always won my games through a vote or a spaceship. Now it is time to try and conquer all enemy countries. This way I want to play a Conquest/Domination game (but I leave the other VCs open for the AI).

    3.) I won't pick a race. I won't roll various starts. I really need to try the first thing that comes along. I'll see how this will go.

    Map Settings:
    * Size=Small
    * Landmass=Continents (60%)
    * Barbarians=roaming
    * Geographie=Normal/Climate/4 Billion
    * Rivals=5 (all random)

    ==Hit Enter==
    And I am ruler of Sumeria. That's new to me. We'll see how it goes then. :lol:
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    4,814
    Location:
    Ohio
    Move the worker to the wheat first before planting the city, to see if you find a better city site. I'd recommend moving the worker first to the spot where it looks like you want it to go anyways, in general also.
     
  3. ionize

    ionize Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2011
    Messages:
    60
    Location:
    Cork, Ireland
    Off-topic
    I was too quick it seems. I already played my first ten turns and logged them. :blush:

    Back to topic
    Turn log inside:
    Spoiler :
    ==Hit enter==
    And I am ruler of Sumeria. That's new to me. We'll see how it goes then.

    Turn 1
    Found Ur on starting location
    Ur => Enkidu
    Move worker SE to road shield grass near river
    Research set to Iron Working at 100%

    IBT
    zzz

    Turn 2
    start road

    IBT
    zzz

    Turn 3
    nothing

    IBT
    zzz

    Turn 4
    start irrigation

    IBT
    UR Enkidu => Enkidu

    Turn 5
    send Enkidu NW to goody hut

    IBT
    zzz

    Turn 6
    We learn Ceremonial Burial from a Kassite tribe

    IBT
    zzz

    Turn 7
    send Enkidu further NE on a hill
    (We see nothing but jungle and swamp to the N of UR) :(

    IBT
    zzz

    Turn 8
    send worker cross-river to road shield grass near river
    Enkidu heads E, I want to see the eastern reaches from a montain nearby

    IBT
    Ur Enkidu => Settler

    Turn 9
    send Enkidu #2 SW to see if there is anything by the coast

    IBT
    Culture expand

    Turn 10
    Enkidu #1 travels through A LOT of jungle :(
    Endiku #2 heading back to Ur


    Nothing much happened and I could easily replay the first few turns. As you can see the W is just ocean and our Northern and NE border are jungle and swamp. Not a bright future there.

    I research IW first, because I want to know where the Iron is. My goal would be to hopefully secure one and start pumping swordmen to fight my (yet to find) neighbors.

    Is a settler after two warrios (Enkidu) too early?
    What about that wheat? Mine it? Road and leave it? Irrigate it (there is the Despotism penalty, right?)?

    I hope to get some advice on this. :)
     

    Attached Files:

  4. RickFGS

    RickFGS Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2006
    Messages:
    2,205
    Location:
    Lisboa, Portugal
    Some notes:

    - wheat should have been irrigate before all other actions
    - you shouldn´t have irrigated grass
    - you shouldn´t be building settler
    - after irrigating wheat and roading it worker should chop forest for early granary
    - irrigate flood plains and plains
    - mine river grass
     
  5. ionize

    ionize Chieftain

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    Location:
    Cork, Ireland
    Thanks for the advice RickFGS. I tried it with your notes in mind and it turned out like this:

    Turn-log inside:
    Spoiler :
    2nd attempt

    ==Hit Enter==
    And I am ruler of Sumeria. That's new to me. We'll see how it goes then.

    Turn 0
    Found Ur on starting location
    Ur => Enkidu
    Move worker E to irrigate wheat
    Research set to Iron Working at 100%

    IBT
    zzz

    Turn 1
    start irrigating wheat

    IBT
    zzz

    Turn 2
    nothing

    IBT
    zzz

    Turn 3
    nothing

    IBT
    zzz

    Turn 4
    nothing

    IBT
    Ur Enkidu => Enkidu

    Turn 5
    send Enkidu NW to explore
    start roading wheat

    IBT
    zzz

    Turn 6
    We learn Ceremonial Burial from a Kassite tribe

    IBT
    zzz

    Turn 7
    send Enkidu further NE on a hill
    (We see nothing but jungle and swamp to the N of Ur) :(

    IBT
    zzz

    Turn 8
    sent worker forrest to chop it
    Enkidu heads E, I want to see the eastern reaches from a montain nearby

    IBT
    zzz

    Turn 9
    Enkidu on hill sees jungles to the East and swamp to the North :(

    IBT
    Ur Enkidu => Granary
    Culture expand

    Turn 10
    Enkidu #1 heads East to the montain
    Enkidu #2 heads to the West-coast


    Now I'm chopping the forest to gain the shields for my granary. As you can see the second citizen is working on the forest at the moment to get the maximum production available. OK this way?

    Once the granary is done, shall I get a settler then?
     

    Attached Files:

  6. darski

    darski Regent in Training

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Location:
    Ontario, Can.
    Just one note that you may not think about... a worker should never leave a square without roading it unless you have a very good reason for it. it makes your life a lot easier if you road as you go... so to speak.

    I'm still (and always) a wussy warlord player so I commend you for taking this shot to move up. It can be little bits that make a long-term difference in your game play.
     
  7. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2008
    Messages:
    4,814
    Location:
    Ohio
    Research Alphabet first, and trade for Iron Working later. The AIs generally value Alphabet and Writing more than anything else, and they come as easy to get while the AI does some initial research for you with other techs. Also, you want to keep 5 food per turn in the capital once you have the wheat irrigated for growth. I'd also recommend putting out another worker with this start to develop the capital quickly. Also, do NOT chop that forest, as if you have "emphasize production" at "yes" and everything else at "no" you can pick up extra shields via that forest, and it's the only one you have around.
     
  8. ionize

    ionize Chieftain

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    Cork, Ireland
    @darski Difficulty level aside, any advice and criticism is welcome from players who are more experienced than I and know how to properly bring their message through.

    @Spoonwood I hear what you say. So Alphabet and Writing? That'd put me on the path to try the Republic sling-shot right? Or at least the Philosophy sling-shot?

    I didn't get what you mean? Can you explain it for dummies please?

    Err.. :confused: So you say I should leave the forest? So what option do I have?
    a) Improve my BG tiles. Question: With BG, do I mine or irrigate it? I tend to irrigate, because I value growth.
    b) Road and irrigate tile E of forest and road forest after that. This way I stick to one river site and improve my income whence I use the forest. Question: Do I use the forest right away to get my Granary asap?
    Oh and what's with your hint at the governor? Use the governor? Or was that some kind of simile/metaphor?
     
  9. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

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    13,697
    Location:
    Oviedo, Fl
    ionize the reeason RickFGS said to not irrigate the grass tille is that while you are under a despotic form of government you take a penalty on the food. So you get a net of 2 food and irrgation just nets the same 2 food. So you wasted worker turns.

    In the main you do not want to make a settler, if you will not get to size 3, before you get the 30 shields. That is because the settler will not be finished until you have 2 spare pop. You can see the AI doing that and wasting time and shields.

    The other thing to consider is you may be worse off making a settler and dropping to size 1 so early. There are times, when it is a good move. Normally you are better off to let the town get to size 4 or even 5/6.

    Ideally you want to time it so you gain the 2 pop and then finish the settler, so the settler comes out and you are still at the same size as when you started the settler.
     
  10. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    Ohio
    Yes, the Republic slingshot. Even if you can't get to Philosophy first shooting down the middle first usually makes sense, as the AIs highly undervalue Literature.

    By 5 food per turn (fpt), I mean the extra food you have going into your city. If you look at your screenshot of Ur you have 4 fpt, since 8 food goes into the city and you need 4 to support the citizens. In other words, look at the far right of the bar which says "food" and count the food icons, and that tells you how much fpt you have. In that screenshot you would do better to swap from the forest to a BG, and you'll get 5 fpt. If you have "emphasize production" on "yes", and the other settings on "no" you'll actually pick up the production (but not the commerce) from the forest square upon growth. So, you'll grow faster and pick up more production that way. On the next turn (and anytime you grow) you swap from the newly acquired forest to another BG for 5 fpt again.
     
  11. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

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    "Ideally you want to time it so you gain the 2 pop and then finish the settler, so the settler comes out and you are still at the same size as when you started the settler."

    This may not be very clear. At day X you elect to start a settler. Your town has Y extra food per turn. The town will grow every time you have accumulated enough food.

    Normally (and no granary) it take 20 (I hope I remembered that right) to grow. So if you are +2fpt, you need 10 turns to grow. It will then take 20 turns to growth twice and gain 2 pop.

    You need 30 shields for the settler and two pop (plus the 1 starting). So you will go to size three in 20 turns and have the extra 2 pop. If you make a net 2 shields you will have 30 shields in 15 turns.

    You cannont finish the settler at 15 turn as you have not grown the second time. This means for 5 turns you do nothing. So you want to set things up to get the proper number of shields to match the growth.

    At the start this will not be so easy and you also do not really want to drop to size 1 after the settler is complete. So you could elect to either increase the food or delay the start of the settler.

    Most of the time you will delay the start of the settler and let the town get to size 2 or 3 and start it. If started at size 2 and you still manage to get 2 pop growth, before the 30 shields, you start at size 2 after the settler comes out.

    If you have a food bonus (what/cow/deer/FP) you gain more options. If you get a granary down the line, you need half as much food to grow. This is because the granary only drops to half the food, when the settler comes out. With no granry the food box will empty. I will not confuse the issue with the details on when a granary gets its half full and the timing.
     
  12. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    Something VMXA said could use a little qualification, but it doesn't really bear relevance all that often, so I've put it in a spoiler tag here.

    Spoiler :
    This all assumes that you don't want to abandon a city, and you have "disable population limit warnings" checked (I believe) in the Preferences screen. If you don't have that checked, and you want to abandon the city, you can produce a settler at size 2 for abandoning the city. Of course, in this game, and the vast majority of games you probably don't want to even think about this option.
     
  13. ionize

    ionize Chieftain

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    Location:
    Cork, Ireland
    Thanks for the detailed information, I think I get it. One question to clarify something for me:
    @Spoonwood When you say that, do you mean I should always have the city governor set to emphasize production and manually switch the citizen from forest to BG? And anytime the city grows the city governor puts the citizen back on the forest and I have to manually redo it?
    Or do you say I should manually set the citizen to BG and when the city overlay tells me (1 turn to growth) I setup the governor to emphasize production so that he auto-switches the citizen in the IBT and I manually correct him in my next turn?

    Sorry to bug you about this, but this is a lot of theory for me. :lol:
     
  14. ionize

    ionize Chieftain

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    I re-read all comments once more and played a 3rd time. This time 20 turns. I'm happy with the outcome and keep it as is (I want to progress in the game after all :lol:).

    Turn-log inside:
    Spoiler :
    ==Hit Enter==
    And I am ruler of Sumeria. That's new to me. We'll see how it goes then.

    Turn 0
    Found Ur on starting location
    Ur => Enkidu
    Move worker E to irrigate wheat
    Research set to Alphabet at 100%

    IBT
    zzz

    Turn 1
    start irrigating wheat

    IBT
    zzz

    Turn 2
    nothing

    IBT
    zzz

    Turn 3
    nothing

    IBT
    zzz

    Turn 4
    nothing

    IBT
    Ur Enkidu => Enkidu

    Turn 5
    send Enkidu NW to explore
    start roading wheat

    IBT
    zzz

    Turn 6
    We learn Ceremonial Burial from a Kassite tribe

    IBT
    zzz

    Turn 7
    send Enkidu further NE on a hill
    (We see nothing but jungle and swamp to the N of Ur) :(

    IBT
    zzz

    Turn 8
    sent worker to BG to road and mine it
    Enkidu heads E, I want to see the eastern reaches from a montain nearby

    IBT
    zzz

    Turn 9
    start roading BG
    Enkidu on hill sees jungles to the East and swamp to the North :(

    IBT
    Ur Enkidu => Worker
    Culture expand

    Turn 10
    Enkidu #1 heads East to the montain
    Enkidu #2 heads to the West-coast

    IBT
    zzz

    Turn 11
    Enkidu #1 wades through jungle
    Enkidu #2 hits coast and returns to center afterwards

    IBT
    zzz

    Turn 12
    start mining BG
    Enkidu #1 steps on montain and sees a goody hut nearby
    Ur size 3 => Science 90%/Entertainment 10%, Worker next round though
    Switch Governor to emphasize production

    IBT
    Ur Worker => Granary
    Switch citizen back from forest to BG

    Turn 13
    move worker #2 to plains E of Ur to road and irrigate
    Science back to 100%, Alphabet in 9 turns

    IBT
    zzz

    Turn 14
    We learn Mysticism from a Khoisan tribe

    IBT
    zzz

    Turn 15
    Enkidu #1 heads East
    Enkidu #2 heads South

    IBT
    zzz

    Turn 16
    just exploration

    IBT
    zzz

    Turn 17
    Ur size 3 => Science 90%/Entertainment 10%
    3rd citizen to plains for extra gold, Alphabet in 4
    start irrigatin plains

    IBT
    zzz

    Turn 18
    move worker #1 to BG cross-river to road and mine

    IBT
    zzz

    Turn 19
    just exploration

    IBT
    zzz

    Turn 20
    just exploration
    Notes:
    - Alphabet next turn
    - Ur grows in 2
    - Granary in 10

    Questions:
    - I don't know if I should put the 4th citizen on forest to get it quicker now, or put him on the 2nd BG?
    - I have to figure out where to put my 2nd city. I like to expand CxxC for safer unit movement. Any suggestions?
     

    Attached Files:

  15. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    Yes, you manually redo it. But, you'll only need to do this for cities that have a certain amount of surplus food per turn (for 4 fpt and 5 fpt you will). Keep the governor with "emphasize production" on "yes" (and the others on "no") the entire game.

    Park a city on one of the plains on the river. I don't know how you got off of 5 fpt with 2 other BGs lying around there. But, you can pick up 11 shields in the next 2 turns two different ways and still hit size 4.

    1. Swap from the plain to the forest, and go with that setup for two turns.

    2. Use the mined BG and the other two BGs on the first turn (do NOT use the wheat this turn) for 3 fpt. Then on the second turn use the wheat, the mined BG, and one of the other BGs for 5 fpt.

    Also, when building the initial granary you want to irrigate the food bonus/mine the other squares first in general, and then road for more shields towards that granary. Also, in any situation you generally want to develop the squares that you will use earliest, before developing other squares. This means that you develop the most powerful squares first. Here that means that instead of irrigating and roading the plain square you would have done better to send a worker up to develop the other BG (after roading the nearby regular grassland square).
     
  16. ionize

    ionize Chieftain

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    I was off 5fpt to gain extra cash from the roaded plains. I emphasized cash to research Alphabet faster.
     
  17. ionize

    ionize Chieftain

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    Another 10 turns and something odd (to me) happened. More below.

    Turn-log inside:
    Spoiler :
    Load game
    MM Ur for 5spt (2 turns) => Alphabet in 2

    IBT
    zzz

    Turn 21
    Move worker to road forest

    IBT
    Alphabet => Writing

    Turn 22
    MM Ur for 5fpt, growth in 4, granary in 6
    Science 80%, Entertainment 20%, Writing in 23 turns
    Start mining BG
    Start roading forest

    IBT
    zzz

    Turn 23
    Nothing important

    IBT
    zzz

    Turn 24
    Nothing important

    IBT
    zzz

    Turn 25
    Nothing important

    IBT
    zzz

    Turn 26
    Discover volcano to the NE
    MM Ur for 5fpt, grwoth in 4, granary next turn
    Science 70%, Entertainment 30%, Writing in 19 turns

    IBT
    Ur Granary => Settler

    Turn 27
    Science 60%, Entertainment 30%, Writing in 20 turns

    IBT
    zzz

    Turn 28
    Move both worker to grassland South of Ur to road and mine

    IBT
    zzz

    Turn 29
    Start roading grassland

    IBT
    Volcano is active.
    Ur size 6

    Turn 30
    MM Ur for 5fpt, growth in 2, settler in 2, Writing in 17
    (save & exit)
    Now I realized that I was pretty sloppy with fpt in my first 20 turns. I followed Spoonwood's advice for the last couple of turns and it was great. Thanks for that.
    I also should have worked my tiles with better priority. I realized that extremely whenever Ur grew and tiles were not prepared. Will keep up with that from now on.

    Now my question: (look at the two screens of my capital please) Why do I get 2 happy, 1 content and 3 unhappy citizen with a tile worked with 2fpt 1spt, but 3 happy and 3 unhappy citizen with a tile worked with 2fpt 1gpt? Am I missing something? I didn't use sliders!
     

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  18. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

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    If you look at the commerce you will see the reason. In the first you have 11gpt and the other has 12. That put an extra gold for the lux and boom a unhappy goes content.
     
  19. Fiddlin Nero

    Fiddlin Nero Chieftain

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    Overwhelmed with things to incorporate in your game yet? Slow down and try to understand why you are doing some single thing before moving on to the next thing to worry about. Many of the suggestions above are arbitrairy. Don't build anything until you know you need it! With Monarch you definitly need to figure out happiness: slider, entertainers, buildings, luxuries all have there effect on it.

    Ask specific questions, how many things, in how you play, can you change and remember for the next game?
     
  20. Skullsplitter

    Skullsplitter Chieftain

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    In the early game, I'd "prebuild" the settler anyway, because, as I understand it, you cannot pop a settler from a goody hut if you are building a settler.
     

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