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Giffica : thanks for the detailed report, added to the to do. Same proposal, there are some Mediterranean maps available from civ5, I could convert 1 or 2, if you'd like to work on the XML for the TSL.
In regards to a mid east map, what options would there be? You think it makes more sense to potentially center my work around the europe map, or just have a map specifically for that game? Would make more sense.
I literally considered going back to Civ5 and using the IGE to make the mapm then convert it haha. It actually doesn't seem that complex to change specific tiles, if that's all the code you need. If I copied that code, and removed the "variables" (such as denmark, arabia, etc) and changed them with the ones I wanted for the map, I would be correct to assume it would make those tiles what I wanted? I assume the code for the features/terrain/resource are all just "X_Y", with Y being the name like "stone", and X being the resource/feature/terrain. It actually wouldn't be that hard. What file would I edit for those changes to appear for the europe map?
BTW, what's the deal with European TSL's for Arabia still? The entire Levant and Mesopotamia don't have TSL currently, and if they do a bit north it's heavily biased towards Greco-Roman naming, or Turkish naming. Neither which fit any of the 3 civs would play in that area (Persia, Sumer, Egypt). Pretty sure even the Nile area has Greco-Roman names mostly, which is pretty strange for an Egypt game. never figured out why for like 4 months, the ONLY AREAS left was the Mid East. Not sure why the project was 1 area from completion and no one bothered to do it. (Probably because the dessert makes TSL insufferable, and, like I said, the rivers are a complete mess to figure out.).
Aside from my "ideal" change, which would be a completely new map cutting out the mostly uninhabited forests of europe, and possibly extending down to Yemen to reflect some of the trade lands that egypt would have had contact with. REAL ideally would be to expand Mesopotamia/Nile/Levant, since the area leaves 1tile between most major cities, rather than the ideal 2.
I ran a game last night and I have a couple issues. I've figured out how to get TSL city names, but it has the "LOC_" BS before it, how do I remove that? Also, what exactly is up with the City states not fully spawning? I assume that's not related to what I'm doing, as it's been an issue for me countless games over the past few months. It Spawned 6 of my 14 City States with TSL (and I put the cap of city states at 20+). I also only had 13 civs. And it definitely wasn't just the ones that you/others put TSL's for because Kumasi, which I used for Mari, spawned right next to Aztec Akkad, and Japanese Assyria.
SOME of the city states didn't spawn because they were 1 tile away. For example the entire Levant is a huge mess for proper history. Ebla/Poland is way to close to Ugarit for Ugarit to even spawn. The Phonecians are right below, Damascus is near, and then Jerusalem right under. Is there any limitation from reducing the minimum distance to basically zero? Essentially just 1 tile away?
While playing through a rough game that I set up, I also found that settlers sort of destroy some of the "history" of the game. History wise, it was independent cities that would rise to dominate the others. So what I would like is a Civ in all the Major cities, then a city state for the ones that "didn't conquer" other cities, or at least not major enough. So cities like Akkad, Ur, Uruk, Kish/Babylon, Assur, Nineveh, Susa would have civs that would attempt to conquer the others. If other civs were to conquer the land, theoretically they could release the old cities back to the civs or city states, effectively replicating the history there. The problem is that none of those other civs are going to found cities REMOTELY NEAR where they should. Their first settler goes totally in a different direction.
I guess if I'm going to do this, I'll need to create a more balanced resource start somehow. My goals and aspirations for a project like this go far beyond my skills as a coder. I can re-verse engineer a large portion of your code and replicate it, but certain things I just wouldn't know how to solve. Iron acting as a Bronze catalyst, where it would only be found in very specific locations. The Cyprus city state having TONS of bronze/iron, and maybe adding another city state on the danube also with bronze/iron. Would then be feasible for other states to trade with them to get that bronze, which would enable military domination. I'd also like to use the era limiting mods to keep it Classical, but can't seem to get them to work properly. I could see a map working with settlers where all the resources are customized so that the "non-settled" areas of the map, traditionally, wouldn't be very good city places. If there are zero luxuries outside the "fertile" lands, the AI wouldn't weight it too heavy to settle, i assume.
I also personally don't have any intention for this to be "balanced". Egypt and Sumer starts will dominate. As they should. Since the "fertile" parts of mesopotamia are around Sumer/Uruk/Ur, Assyria and Akkad tend to get slightely behind starts, which again makes a lot of sense. Elam as well. The problem then becomes Persia, who i've put at Ecbatana, who have the entire region to settle. Ideally, if that region was basically worthless with no luxuries, settling before being able to handle the new population would cripple the state, as historically it did.
Then there is greece.....which is a complete mess even in my game. It's just so goddamn small....you can either fit a Mycenean Pericles on Mycenae and a "Dorian" Gorgo further north west. But there really is no where to properly represent the Doric invasion, or the shift that occured in greece. Pericles has some significant trouble puting cities any more north than Greece, so that generally works out. But if you add another civ, like gorgo, who will mostly conquer pericles (especially if I give it a significantly better start), Gorgo starts colonizing Serbia and Hungary and crap.....like Alexander probably does on everyone's Europe Map games.
The only way to solve that problem is a complete map overhaul, so for the time being, greece is just gonna be some far off, kind of civilized area. Also the fact their more heavily weight settling north, rather than going across the agean at all. If I were to cut the map off above those mountains in North Greece then Sparta and Athens would be forced to start settling around the agean.
Final note in this annoying long post. Here is my actual work on some of the TSL names. This is the first time I did anything like this, so I'd like to know what/if i did anything wrong, and what I should do better. Many of the city names maybe be a tile or two off, but GENERALLY i picked rough estimates of where these cities are. Even our history of the subject we aren't totally sure where cities like Akkad were located.
Code:
<CityMap>
<!-- Mid East -->
<!-- Mesopotamia -->
<Replace MapName="PlayEuropeAgain" X="101" Y="21" CityLocaleName="LOC_CITY_NAME_Der" Area="0" />
<Replace MapName="PlayEuropeAgain" X="100" Y="23" CityLocaleName="LOC_CITY_NAME_Hamazi" Area="0" />
<Replace MapName="PlayEuropeAgain" X="93" Y="23" CityLocaleName="LOC_CITY_NAME_Nuzi" Area="0" />
<Replace MapName="PlayEuropeAgain" X="99" Y="20" CityLocaleName="LOC_CITY_NAME_Akkad" Area="0" />
<Replace MapName="PlayEuropeAgain" X="95" Y="21" CityLocaleName="LOC_CITY_NAME_Assur" Area="0" />
<Replace MapName="PlayEuropeAgain" X="92" Y="20" CityLocaleName="LOC_CITY_NAME_Mari" Area="0" />
<Replace MapName="PlayEuropeAgain" X="93" Y="25" CityLocaleName="LOC_CITY_NAME_Nineveh" Area="0" />
<Replace MapName="PlayEuropeAgain" X="91" Y="23" CityLocaleName="LOC_CITY_NAME_Nagar" Area="0" />
<Replace MapName="PlayEuropeAgain" X="88" Y="21" CityLocaleName="LOC_CITY_NAME_Tuttul" Area="0" />
<Replace MapName="PlayEuropeAgain" X="89" Y="24" CityLocaleName="LOC_CITY_NAME_Harran" Area="0" />
<!-- The Levant -->
<Replace MapName="PlayEuropeAgain" X="82" Y="21" CityLocaleName="LOC_CITY_NAME_Alalakh" Area="0" />
<Replace MapName="PlayEuropeAgain" X="83" Y="19" CityLocaleName="LOC_CITY_NAME_Ebla" Area="0" />
<Replace MapName="PlayEuropeAgain" X="83" Y="17" CityLocaleName="LOC_CITY_NAME_Qadesh" Area="0" />
<Replace MapName="PlayEuropeAgain" X="82" Y="18" CityLocaleName="LOC_CITY_NAME_Ugarit" Area="0" />
<Replace MapName="PlayEuropeAgain" X="82" Y="16" CityLocaleName="LOC_CITY_NAME_Byblos" Area="0" />
<Replace MapName="PlayEuropeAgain" X="85" Y="16" CityLocaleName="LOC_CITY_NAME_Qatna" Area="0" />
<Replace MapName="PlayEuropeAgain" X="84" Y="15" CityLocaleName="LOC_CITY_NAME_Damascus" Area="0" />
<Replace MapName="PlayEuropeAgain" X="78" Y="18" CityLocaleName="LOC_CITY_NAME_Kition" Area="0" />
<!-- Canaan -->
<Replace MapName="PlayEuropeAgain" X="79" Y="11" CityLocaleName="LOC_CITY_NAME_Gaza" Area="0" />
<Replace MapName="PlayEuropeAgain" X="81" Y="10" CityLocaleName="LOC_CITY_NAME_Beersheba" Area="0" />
<Replace MapName="PlayEuropeAgain" X="81" Y="11" CityLocaleName="LOC_CITY_NAME_Hebron" Area="0" />
<Replace MapName="PlayEuropeAgain" X="80" Y="12" CityLocaleName="LOC_CITY_NAME_Ashkelon" Area="0" />
<Replace MapName="PlayEuropeAgain" X="81" Y="12" CityLocaleName="LOC_CITY_NAME_Lachish" Area="0" />
<Replace MapName="PlayEuropeAgain" X="82" Y="12" CityLocaleName="LOC_CITY_NAME_Jerusalem" Area="0" />
<Replace MapName="PlayEuropeAgain" X="83" Y="12" CityLocaleName="LOC_CITY_NAME_Jericho" Area="0" />
<Replace MapName="PlayEuropeAgain" X="81" Y="13" CityLocaleName="LOC_CITY_NAME_Jaffa" Area="0" />
<Replace MapName="PlayEuropeAgain" X="82" Y="13" CityLocaleName="LOC_CITY_NAME_Samaria" Area="0" />
<Replace MapName="PlayEuropeAgain" X="82" Y="14" CityLocaleName="LOC_CITY_NAME_Acre" Area="0" />
<Replace MapName="PlayEuropeAgain" X="83" Y="14" CityLocaleName="LOC_CITY_NAME_Hazor" Area="0" />
<Replace MapName="PlayEuropeAgain" X="83" Y="8" CityLocaleName="LOC_CITY_NAME_Petra" Area="0" />
<!-- Sumeria -->
<Replace MapName="PlayEuropeAgain" X="104" Y="17" CityLocaleName="LOC_CITY_NAME_Lagash" Area="0" />
<Replace MapName="PlayEuropeAgain" X="102" Y="17" CityLocaleName="LOC_CITY_NAME_Girsu" Area="0" />
<Replace MapName="PlayEuropeAgain" X="102" Y="18" CityLocaleName="LOC_CITY_NAME_Bad Tabira" Area="0" />
<Replace MapName="PlayEuropeAgain" X="101" Y="17" CityLocaleName="LOC_CITY_NAME_Umma" Area="0" />
<Replace MapName="PlayEuropeAgain" X="103" Y="14" CityLocaleName="LOC_CITY_NAME_Ur" Area="0" />
<Replace MapName="PlayEuropeAgain" X="103" Y="12" CityLocaleName="LOC_CITY_NAME_Eridu" Area="0" />
<Replace MapName="PlayEuropeAgain" X="101" Y="15" CityLocaleName="LOC_CITY_NAME_Larsa" Area="0" />
<Replace MapName="PlayEuropeAgain" X="100" Y="15" CityLocaleName="LOC_CITY_NAME_URUK" Area="0" />
<Replace MapName="PlayEuropeAgain" X="100" Y="16" CityLocaleName="LOC_CITY_NAME_Nippur" Area="0" />
<Replace MapName="PlayEuropeAgain" X="99" Y="17" CityLocaleName="LOC_CITY_NAME_Kish" Area="0" />
<Replace MapName="PlayEuropeAgain" X="98" Y="19" CityLocaleName="LOC_CITY_NAME_Sippar" Area="0" />
<Replace MapName="PlayEuropeAgain" X="96" Y="17" CityLocaleName="LOC_CITY_NAME_Rapiqum" Area="0" />
<!-- Persia -->
<Replace MapName="PlayEuropeAgain" X="101" Y="27" CityLocaleName="LOC_CITY_NAME_Ecbatana" Area="0" />
<Replace MapName="PlayEuropeAgain" X="106" Y="19" CityLocaleName="LOC_CITY_NAME_Susa" Area="0" />
</CityMap>
Think I'm gonna go work on some individual tile changes for the Europe map, as it's virtually the only map I play since it is one of the only ones with TSL (or was for a long time), and properly represents most areas. The Giant Map simplifies major geographic areas too much for my liking, and the GIANT GIANT map just doesn't play fast enough to make it bearable. Also it doesn't have TSL. I'll rework the tiles according to two principles: A. Historical accuracy first B. Avoiding gross gameplay problems/areas having enough room to make a city somewhere. And since my personal game is a different geographic change, that being the fact Mesopotamia and it's river system was totally different, I'll keep those changes separate from it, in case you want to update the main map with some of the more sensible changes (such as fixing Israel and the Euphrates). In the future I can see some kind of check box called "Ancient Mesopotamia River Geography", which would change the river flow, and edits the marshes to be coast tiles.