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Playable Historical Civ ideas

Discussion in 'Civ4Col - Medieval: Conquests' started by drjest2000, Jul 27, 2013.

  1. Trade Winds

    Trade Winds Warlord

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    Still following the off topic conversation, I wanted to say that I have always been intrigued with Germans. Why do all their neighbours around call them in a different way? Daw explained their part, but what about the rest? Could it be because of the nearest region they have close by? Even they don't call Germans themselves!!!
     
  2. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Deity

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    Prussia became expansionistic 150 years ago and started conquering a lot of small countries. That resulted in one big country we know as Germany. Presumably the different names for Germany actually refers to different small countries before the unification, like "the people across the border are called X. We will keep calling them that even though they now have a new leader".
     
  3. Commander Bello

    Commander Bello Say No 2 Net Validations

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    Location:
    near Koblenz, Germany
    Well, the French are calling us "Allemands" (German: Alemannen), which have been a Germanic tribe, settling in the area of nowadays southern Germany, Austria and Switzerland.
    The English are calling us Germans, which is nothing more than a grouping of Germanic tribes and goes back to Julius Caesar, who named the area settled by these tribes "Germania".
    In Sweden (or was it Norway?) Germany is called "Tyskland" (see below).

    We Germans are calling ourselves "Deutsche", which originates from "diutisc" (= belonging to the people) which more or less means "speaking the language of the people", in the meaning of "we are speaking the same language". Which fits perfectly when you're having a look at the German history; as the national identity of Germany indeed was based very much on this: speaking the same language, while being under the rule of different sovereigns, princes, and what not more.

    So, Germany (Deutschland) and all the different names it is called in foreign languages has quite a long history. As have the French (France, in German "Frankreich"), originating from the Franks (think of Charlemagne = Charles the Great/Karl der Große, being a Franconian leader).

    We just happen to live in the middle of Europe, having more neighbours today than any other European country. And they are calling us differently based on with which part of the later German nation they first got into contact.

    It has nothing to do with Prussia nor any Prussian conquests.
     
  4. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Deity

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    I wonder if that is actually a viking name for (northern?) Germany as this is the name used in all countries where the vikings came from. The only country spelling it differently is Iceland, where it is Þýskaland. Þ is pronounced "th" and it is actually a rune, which found it's way into the latin alphabet. It is actually in vanilla GameFont, but I don't think we use it.

     
  5. Commander Bello

    Commander Bello Say No 2 Net Validations

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    The problem with your assumption is that Prussia grew into the German territory, not out of it (contrary to the house of Habsburg/Austria, btw).
     
  6. Daw

    Daw Emperor

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    Wow. Isn't it the mirror image of the "Nemtsy" ("those who can't speak") concept?

    Interestingly (and similarly), many researchers relate the ethnonym "Slav" with "slovo" (= word/speech). This is supported by the presence of "slovo" in some modern country names: Slovakia and Slovenia for instance.

    So, Slavs, similarly to Deutsch, are those who share the language by using same or similar words and being able to understand each other.

    Spoiler :
    Even now Polish, Czech, Slovak, Sloven, Ukrainian, Serbian and Russian languages are close enough for people to understand each other (if they try) without a need for a dictionary or an interpreter. Well, maybe not the fluent verbal speech and not in every detail, but the overall meaning of a written text must be comprehensible after some consideration.

    Russian and Belorussian languages differ no more than British English and American English.


    Besides, I think I have an idea of how to combine:
    - the BBC version of "Rus'" means "people who row";
    - the Primary Chronicle says "Rus'" are Varangians;
    - Varangians / Vikings don't refer to themselves as Rus, but rather point to some Land to be Rus-Land (that would be the Land where the Rus thing is, or happens, or something).

    The idea is that Rus meaning must be broader than only "people who row". Instead it should be anything connected with rowing.

    This way Rurik took all his Rus-men (rowers) - all of them Norse Varangians - to Rus (row) the rivers of Rus-Land (the land where you have to row the rivers).

    What's left is to confirm or disprove the idea. Does anyone speak Old Norse, Proto-Slavic or Finno-Ugric?
     
  7. Commander Bello

    Commander Bello Say No 2 Net Validations

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    Actually, this is not surprising.

    Up to the invention of the steam engine and railroad, most people never managed to move more than 50 km/30 miles away from where they were born.
    Thus, they shared the same "natio" (latin: place of birth, origin, people) automatically and by that, the same language.
    Princes and kings changed, but the people did not. It was the language which gave them the feeling of belonging together.

    We should not forget that the modern concept of nationality is just that: quite modern.
     

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