[NFP] Playing a game of rewriting history: Could NFP have worked as a 3rd expansion?

[kaspergm]

There’s been a lot of debate about how people feel about NFP, and it’s no secret my feelings for it are at best lukewarm. One of my biggest gripes with NFP (beyond lack of balance) is that the game modes feel shallow and lack implementation in the rest of the game - which is arguably an inherent part of something being a game mode that can be toggled on and off at will.

So the game I wanted to play was: How could NFP have been as an actual expansion, and would it have worked? What should remain in, what should be changed, and what should have been left out? Here are my thoughts on the current content of NFP.

Corporations: This was one of my most wanted features in the game, and probably one of the better implemented modes, but still I’m not impressed with this. Most obviously, the complete lack of interaction between this and the Industrial Zone is rather bizarre. I do like the idea that you can produce different kinds of products and put them up on the market in your Stock Exchange - that’s definitely the most novel idea of this pack. The fact that different products give different benefits is also nice, although I’d like a bigger differentiation between products. My main suggestion for a change would be for the corporations to replace the unique “merchant” luxuries like Toys, Cosmetics and Perfume and instead make these - and other products - something that’s produced from basic resources in your Factories. Suggestions for products could be:

• Rice + Fish/Crabs = Sushi
  
• Dyes + Wool/Cotton = Blue Jeans
• Furs + Silk = Fashion Clothing
• Whales + Incense = Perfume
• Oil + Iron = Toys
• Silver + Jade/Ivory/Diamonds
• Copper + Aluminium = Electronics (cue Japan Electronics Factory!)

Verdict: Keep but change/expand.

Barbarians: While not something I had wishes actively for, this is again a game mode that has a huge potential, but suffers badly from implementation. There are many great suggestions by others in this thread, and I fully support ideas like conversion speed being based on fertility of terrain and biome, possibility of barbarians turning into Free Cities rather than - or before - City States, etc. Verdict: Keep but change/expand.

Heroes: I’m split on this feature. It has some interesting elements, but currently is completely destroyed by balance. I wouldn’t be against a reworked version of this in the game, where each civ could only recruit one hero during each game, but apart from the balance between heroes, there’s also the issue of overloading the game with “free stuff” that just goes to speed game up. Verdict: Probably discard.

Secret Societies: While this has a few interesting aspects, overall I’d discard with this completely. I dislike the whole ideas of Vampires and fantasy elements, and overall this game mode doesn’t enhance game play for me - it just feels like a lot of free stuff, and balance is (or was) horrible. I guess some basic frame of this could be reworked into the late-game Ideologies of Civ5 - which I would welcome - but that would require a complete rework. Verdict: Discard in current form.

Dramatic Ages: I’d be for a rebalancing/rethinking of the eras system as a general balance overpass. I like the idea of more negative dark ages - losing cities can be painful and would make normal ages more acceptable - and I like the era score overflow. But I dislike that normal ages are completely gone, and slotting golden age cards in and out is frankly quite OP and removes a lot of the interesting aspects of this feature in the first place, which is picking your dedication. Btw. we need more and variable dedications between game - not ALWAYS Monumentality in classic AND medieval AND renaissance, etc. Verdict: Rework into overall game balance.

Apocalypse: No interest for me. Could be a scenario for all I cared. Verdict: Discard.

Shuffle mode: While no interest for me, this is the one place where I think the idea of a game mode actually works in reality. Verdict: Keep as toggable mode.

Other content in NFP:

• New civs: I'm rather indifferent to specific choices of civ (apart from Maya), but rework balance.
• New districts: I like them. Good additions to the game.
• New wonders: I like them. Good additions to the game.
• New natural wonders: Not a fan of the fantasy theme. Would have liked proper natural wonders.
• New city states: Also good additions. Adds variation between games.
• New resources: Not sure about maize giving gold, feel that one is off the mark. And camps on honey? Feels strange.
• New great people: Very welcome, we need more variations between the game.
• Balance changes: GREAT! Keep them coming! World Congress - pleeeease!

My overall conclusion:
I think NFP could have been a fine expansion pack featuring these elements:

• Expanded and integrated Corporations feature
• Expanded Barb feature
• Minor content as is with small adjustments
• A general balance pass on World Congress (ok probably rather: A complete reworking!) which includes Ideologies in some way (possibly drawing on some features of what is currently Secret Societies)

 

[Zegangani]

NFP is technically an Expansion and even some NFP Game Files have Expansion 3 Prefix or Suffex in their Name (XP3_DLC3_Ambiences.bnk).

But regular Expansions, as we know them, have a Major Theme they Focus On (RnF: Diplomacy, City Government - GS: Climate, Resource Management), which make the most part of it, but bring also other, not necessarily minor, Features.
However, NFP Features differ completely from each other and aren't even interconnected (No wonder that they aren't with the BaseGame/RnF/GS Elements).

So the Idea of releasing NFP as DLC Packs was the right thing to do IMO (People can choose what they want to buy). But it would have been much better if they didn't hold to the Time Schedule of Monthly Releases/Updates, but instead they could have released the DLCs bimonthly including the Free Updates. This way they would have had much more Time to Fix the Bugs and Balances introduced in the previous Pack, and less Time pressure, that leads to many Mistakes and Bugs.

Nonetheless, I agree with you about the NFP content. Everything is really done greatly by the Devs (including the QoL features like CS/Leader/NW Pickers), except most of the Modes. I mostly like New Mechanisms/Systems and expanded/refined Elements, so my Ideal NFP would have these refined Modes:

- Apocalypse Mode: Apocalypse IMO doesn't mean just Natural Disasters, such as Volcano Eruptions and Meteors, but also failed genetic Experements in Labs that lead to your Citizens turning into Zombies (loosing Pop) and mutating animal Resources. I would have loved something like that in the Information or Future Eras, so that even if you were close to win the Game, everything would fall apart and you have to survive till your Researchers find the Cure, so that the Player who spreads the Cure all over the World with a Rocket Launch would win the Science Victory (No other Victory Types possible). Or Nuclear Bombs that destoy the Map and turn it into something like in Red Death...etc (Plagues and Deseases could also be a thing, but in current Times...). But I would also liked it if we Finally got Earthquakes, and the Disasters made to last only 1 turn (like if they happen once in the 1 turn Timeframe but with more severe effects - Tornadoes that take (10 of)Years?).

- Secret Societies Mode: before it was released I always thought they're going to be something like the Freemasons, the Knight Templars or the Illuminati, with gamy but realistic Effects. Secret Societies based on rl ones beside an (even simple) Ideology Systeme (that may work like the current Religion System but automatically, with few direct actions that you can make) would have been my favorite Mode beside (my ideal) Industries/Corporations/Monopolies Mode.

- Tech/Civic Trees Shuffle Mode: This is the best implemented Mode we got so far, and I like it as it is. I would just would have liked to also get some interaction between the two Trees and maybe dynamic and realistic Eurekas/Inspirations (like single Techs/Civics getting many boosts based an achievements/actions..etc, and like getting a Horse Riding Tech Eureka when a Unit of yours sees a foreign Horseman Unit).

- Dramatic Ages Mode: That's one great Mode that they have done. I just miss the Normal Age and AI should be less vulnerable/more resistant to dramatic ages. I don't know, but it just felt too basic as a paid DLC Mode, nothing to compare to the other Modes that brought many other stuff to the Game. Nonetheless, even just better AI handling would make Ages great again IMO.

- Heroes and Legends Mode: Why not include real Heroes and Legends, Admirals and Generals? with similar Effects to the normal Great Generals and Great Admirals, but keeping the Life Span, except they can only be obteined in the Eras where they lived and died. Maybe Just turn the existing GG and GA to Heroes and Legends (Ok, I think I might mod that myself some time).

- Industries/Cororations and Monopolies Mode: I expected nothing less than the Civ IV Corporations. Not just Luxuries, all the resources. One Industry of a Resource Type in a City? Ok. But Corporations should make it able to build Industries in Cities that don't have their respective resource (if the player has enough of that resource in his/her Cities) and spread to other Civs Cities (that should actually play the major role in acquiring Monopolies). Also, as OP suggested, given that we have Districts in Civ VI, the Corporation Headquarters could be built in IZs (4th Tier Building, only Corporation Headquarters can not coexist in a City, but not normal Corporations). 2 Types of Industries: one for a single resource and one that combines many (2+) in order to make a new resource (not product). The Type gets choosen via Projects (in Host City), that get available if you have the right resource(s), to unlock the spicific Builder Ability. Products will then get produced when you build the Industry and have the respective Corporation in the same City. Keep the Great Work Products Systeme.

- Barbarian Mode: That's one neat Mode if you look away from the Bugs. Same as OP.

 

[UWHabs]

Yeah, I think the fact that there's not really one "theme" to the various modes is a big reason why they didn't release it all at once as an XP. The only modes from the pack that I would argue make more sense as always-on core game elements are the Corporations and barbarians mode, and as they mentioned in the stream, the barbarian mode wasn't even initially on their list to add. The rest of the modes tweak things around enough that they would always be game modes, and while nothing says they couldn't have released the whole thing as an XP filled with game modes, again, the fact that all the changes are kind of all over the place would have been hard to keep under a central "theme".

I would agree, and probably some people internally at Firaxis probably do as well, that the monthly release cycle made things very tight in timelines, so I imagine there's more pieces there that they would have enjoyed more QA time with. Some of the "bugs" and tweaks are understandable - rebalancing for Colombia, or taking away those extra governor titles from SS, or increasing Ley Line yields, are understandable and more fall under general balance issues. But a few of the others have had larger issues that probably could have used a little more delay between releases. And because of the tight cycle, if something breaks in one patch, it's 2+months to fix now just because it's hard to get a bug reported and fix in before they have to finalize the next patch, which messes the timeline. If it was simply "every 2 months, we release a new patch with lots of fixes, free new content, and optional new paid game mode/content", I think that might have gone over better. You even fix the imbalance where some months the "free" update was mostly a handful of little bug fixes, and some months it was a whole new game mode and more.

Whether it would have done better as a full XP rather than a monthly release program? As the saying goes, that's way above my paygrade.

 

[Wielki Hegemon]

Corporations: This was one of my most wanted features in the game, and probably one of the better implemented modes, but still I’m not impressed with this. Most obviously, the complete lack of interaction between this and the Industrial Zone is rather bizarre. I do like the idea that you can produce different kinds of products and put them up on the market in your Stock Exchange - that’s definitely the most novel idea of this pack. The fact that different products give different benefits is also nice, although I’d like a bigger differentiation between products. My main suggestion for a change would be for the corporations to replace the unique “merchant” luxuries like Toys, Cosmetics and Perfume and instead make these - and other products - something that’s produced from basic resources in your Factories. Suggestions for products could be:

• Rice + Fish/Crabs = Sushi
  
• Dyes + Wool/Cotton = Blue Jeans
• Furs + Silk = Fashion Clothing
• Whales + Incense = Perfume
• Oil + Iron = Toys
• Silver + Jade/Ivory/Diamonds
• Copper + Aluminium = Electronics (cue Japan Electronics Factory!)

Verdict: Keep but change/expand.

As much as I love Corporations in Civilization and more economy-focused game this product tree would be too RNG dependant. Not every luxury resource is on a single map, so with bad RNG and map without Furs you will never be able to produce Fashion Clothing.

 

[bbbt]

I personally would have liked fewer 'game modes' which more depth and interaction with other mechanics - i.e. the corporations game mode with an economic victory even and more interaction with say diplomacy. Barbarian game mode with more ways to influence (loyalty, trade, envoys, etc) than just money and them also moving to free states. Dramatic Ages with a bit more refinement on how cities flip besides just X percentage. Having said that, I really enjoy the randomized tech tree, which doesn't need much more added. So some space for 'smaller' game modes would be good (maybe free vs paid?).

So the issues I see with NFP vs expansion:
-Commitment to do X game modes in the time frame
-Implication that maybe all game modes need to be equal 'weight' if paid
-Game modes mostly designed to work with Vanilla, while Expansions are willing to carry previous mechanics forward. I.e. a barbarians game mode in an expansion could use loyalty and free cities while they don't in the game mode since they don't want it to require Rise and Fall.

If they keep this model for say Civ 7, there's no reason they can't accommodate for the above, i.e.:

-Quarterly DLC releases with a patch in between instead of monthly (8 updates a year and not 12).
-A more flexible model for 'shared mechanics' - i.e. something like free cities just gets moved into the base game so multiple game modes can use it. Or in general - update base game code with major game mechanics, utilization in game modes. So they don't end up hamstrung by 'we want to use loyalty but we don't want to give it away for free when people have already paid for it and we don't want to have to require it as a predecessor DLC'

 

[Zegangani]

As much as I love Corporations in Civilization and more economy-focused game this product tree would be too RNG dependant. Not every luxury resource is on a single map, so with bad RNG and map without Furs you will never be able to produce Fashion Clothing.

I think that's actually a plus point, because it would keep the replayability of the Mode/Game. So even if you might not have Furs or Silk in your Territory, you will probably have access to Sheep, which could produce Wool resource so you can make normal Clothes that have less Bonusses than Silk/Furs Fashion Clothes (say, split Luxury Products to two: the ones that get produced from Bonus Resources will have less bonusses and the one from Luxuries will have more). You could also get the resources from Trade/Suzerained CSs.

There is so much Potential to the Mode, that it's really a pity that it was made so Simple.

 

[UWHabs]

I think that's actually a plus point, because it would keep the replayability of the Mode/Game. So even if you might not have Furs or Silk in your Territory, you will probably have access to Sheep, which could produce Wool resource so you can make normal Clothes that have less Bonusses than Silk/Furs Fashion Clothes (say, split Luxury Products to two: the ones that get produced from Bonus Resources will have less bonusses and the one from Luxuries will have more). You could also get the resources from Trade/Suzerained CSs.

There is so much Potential to the Mode, that it's really a pity that it was made so Simple.

I think the one problem with more custom combos is that either you leave some resources out because they don't combine otherwise, or you have to create so many industry/corporation options that you can no longer give them all unique(ish) benefits that it doesn't actually help. I don't necessarily mind leaving some parts out, or going back to the Sid's Sushi days where you get bonuses for some resource combos but not others, and it would have been nice to somehow use either the strategic or bonus resources in the mode as well (why not have an Iron industry or a Wheat corporation?), but I think at least having a generic enough system still works. And since most games it's hard to get more than a handful of corporations anyways, you still get some RNG based on which resources you have available - whether you have a faith-boosting industry available to you in a game is definitely not guaranteed based on your starting location.

 

[Zegangani]

I think the one problem with more custom combos is that either you leave some resources out because they don't combine otherwise, or you have to create so many industry/corporation options that you can no longer give them all unique(ish) benefits that it doesn't actually help. I don't necessarily mind leaving some parts out, or going back to the Sid's Sushi days where you get bonuses for some resource combos but not others, and it would have been nice to somehow use either the strategic or bonus resources in the mode as well (why not have an Iron industry or a Wheat corporation?), but I think at least having a generic enough system still works. And since most games it's hard to get more than a handful of corporations anyways, you still get some RNG based on which resources you have available - whether you have a faith-boosting industry available to you in a game is definitely not guaranteed based on your starting location.

You're right, making Unique Bonusses to various resource Combos would be burdensome, although we would welcome such veriety of Bonusses. That's what the Devs made excellently with the current Pruducts: different resource Products share the same Bonusses (Although, each resource could have easily it's Unique Bonusses). That would solve the Issue of Unique Bonusses. And concerning Resources that can't be combined with other ones, that could be balanced by giving the combined resources malusses, such as reducing their Tile Yields.
Regarding RNG, I think smaller Maps would suffer the Most from this Concept, but it wouldn't be a big Issue with larger Maps. So I got your point, it would be a "limited Fun".
Nonetheless, I got used to the Mode as it is, except 2 things that really frustrate me: Why doesn't the Products give Amenities to the Host City(I mean they are Luxury Products, mainly produced to keep your Citizens Happy)? and as you said, the not included Bonus/Strategic Resources into the Mode.

 

[kaspergm]

I think the lack of coherency between the elements of NFP is a valid argument against it working as an expansion pack. On the other hand, if the barbarian thing was branded as "reframing the barbarians in a more civilized look", and the other parts of the pack also focused on peaceful/economic stuff (corporations, world congress rework, ideologies), I guess one could argue for some sort of coherence, a bit like "Beyond The Sword" back in its days.

As much as I love Corporations in Civilization and more economy-focused game this product tree would be too RNG dependant. Not every luxury resource is on a single map, so with bad RNG and map without Furs you will never be able to produce Fashion Clothing.

Obviously, for a system like I suggested above to work, you'd have to come up with some product for all the luxuries ... which would at least be a challenge, but hey, isn't that what life's all about? I do like the idea mentioned above that one could group corporations into overall themes - for instance clothing, food, personal decoration and entertainment - and then within each group have different products that can be made. So perhaps you specialize your factory as a "clothing factory", and then you can make blue jeans, fashion clothing or whatever other categories one could come up with depending on which resources were available. Similarly, in the "food" factory, you could make sushi, hamburgers, curry dishes, candy, chocolate, etc. based on what resources are available. In that way, it would probably be easier to come up with likely products.

Having them grouped might also solve some of the challenge of the unique bonuses, because you could either have all items within the same group give the same bonus (for instance, all food products give, well, extra food), or alternatively you could give each product within each group a different bonus but have those bonuses repeat across groups, depending on how things were actually implemented.

 

[acluewithout]

How could NFP have been as an actual expansion, and would it have worked?

It could have worked as an Expansion, but I think I prefer what we got.

All the modes are pretty good. Some could definitely have been better - SS needed a bit more depth / actual negatives, and C&M definitely could have used some integration with IZs. I think more could have interacted with RnF and GS mechanics more - eg World Resolutions that impact Secret Societies and Corporations. But still pretty good, and I much prefer having all these mechanics even C&M as things you can toggle. If anything, I now wish some of the existing mechanics like loyalty were toggle too.

I also think the vampires, soothsayers and now zombies are all fine given it’s all optional game modes. They’re all very light touch fantasy genre anyway, they’re behind optional modes, and it’s actually fun to be able this sort of stuff into games occasionally.

If Civ is going to have game modes, I think my preference is a monthly release schedule alternating between DLC and free content. Did that model create issues with quality and or depth? I don’t know. Maybe. Although previous expansions had their issues too. I think a single expansion might have actually felt more messy.

I’d be pretty happy with another Season Pass including game modes. I’d also be happy with perhaps some smaller “Mini-Expansions” perhaps focused on Ideology and World Wars or Science Fiction, with a few more base mechanics / units / buildings and maybe 2 or 3 game modes. I’m still holding out hope for late game governors and ideological pressure.

 

[Flactine]

One important thing: Heroes' Greatworks all have no images.

 

[Shadowstrike]

I'm in the camp of people who liked the monthly releases (and frequent patching) of the NFP, versus the previous expansions. It "works" in the sense that it really allowed the devs to try out a lot of different ideas, without having to commit to supporting any one of them super strongly. None of the game modes would really have been "enough" to support an expansion by itself, and they likely wouldn't have seen the light of day if it wasn't released in this modular way. It also allows us to play with or without elements that we might not love - it would be great, for instance, if things like the future age, had been game modes instead of packaged within the main game. I'm not sure if there are enough ideas floating around to support another season of NFP, but it really worked for this year (and I imagine it also made things more manageable for the dev team through the whole "work-from-home during the pandemic" period).

 

[_hero_]

I think the error here is assuming that the modes would have been better somehow if they were released as core features rather than toggleable game modes. The reason this assumption is flawed is that many of the core features released in past expansions have been lacking in appeal for many people and still do to this day. The fact that you are saying you want to see a world congress rework is proof of that.

I also don't think it's an issue of time constraints. The devs have in the past released tons of scenarios that most people don't touch. Their design philosophy doesn't seem to be wholly based around what is going to be most popular but rather seems like "passion projects" from within the team. They've said as much when explaining how something like Red Death came into being. They have the data and know that most of their player base doesn't touch multiplayer. I'm sure they knew that Red Death wouldn't change that, but they toyed around with it at the office and they enjoyed it so they implemented it. I have no doubt that had they released an expansion, things like secret societies would have still been implemented in some form, possibly as scenarios instead of game modes, but how is that functionally different for the people who don't like it?

My conclusions is that while they absolutely could design the game better in certain areas, this is not a NFP vs expansion issue. It's a philosophy/implementation issue.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

One important thing: Heroes' Greatworks all have no images.

I think this was fixed, for me at least.

 

[InsidiousMage]

I think the error here is assuming that the modes would have been better somehow if they were released as core features rather than toggleable game modes. The reason this assumption is flawed is that many of the core features released in past expansions have been lacking in appeal for many people and still do to this day. The fact that you are saying you want to see a world congress rework is proof of that.

I also don't think it's an issue of time constraints. The devs have in the past released tons of scenarios that most people don't touch. Their design philosophy doesn't seem to be wholly based around what is going to be most popular but rather seems like "passion projects" from within the team. They've said as much when explaining how something like Red Death came into being. They have the data and know that most of their player base doesn't touch multiplayer. I'm sure they knew that Red Death wouldn't change that, but they toyed around with it at the office and they enjoyed it so they implemented it. I have no doubt that had they released an expansion, things like secret societies would have still been implemented in some form, possibly as scenarios instead of game modes, but how is that functionally different for the people who don't like it?

Comparing the World Congress vs. the game modes is a little off because, while people might not like the WC, it's properly integrated into the core game mechanics, unlike almost all of the game modes. Red Death is it's own thing and, from what little I've seen, seems to work fine by it's own game rules and mechanics and is fun to play. Not liking something because you don't like how the mechanic works is different from not liking something because it feels superfluous to the rest of the game are different things, which is the complaint a lot of people have with the game modes. By making the game modes optional Firaxis can't design the game around them which makes them feel shallow. This is especially true in regards to the AI, which the NFP seems to failed at pretty hard with the AI barely being able to use any of the new mechanics.

Now, while generally agree with the philosophical approach taken by the game modes and think a lot more for the game mechanics should be optional, it is very hard to design a game like that so I'm not going to give Firaxis a lot grief for that. However, if you are going to add a bunch of new modes to the game they need to properly integrated otherwise they are probably going to lose their novelty and replay value really fast.

 

[hhhhhh]

Don't interpret NFP as a 3rd expansion, instead I'd like to see it as a new mode of release -- iterate fast and learn from the community. Make balance changes etc.

Some may feel like Civ is a bit more like those online games with constant changes. But I enjoy the 2nd half of the release very much -- they really learnt something from the community and implemented it.

Maybe for Civ VII expansions will be more like NFP -- Some major release followed by DLC civs and balance changes. Release in a series of patches.

 

[kaspergm]

I think the error here is assuming that the modes would have been better somehow if they were released as core features rather than toggleable game modes. The reason this assumption is flawed is that many of the core features released in past expansions have been lacking in appeal for many people and still do to this day. The fact that you are saying you want to see a world congress rework is proof of that.

I also don't think it's an issue of time constraints. The devs have in the past released tons of scenarios that most people don't touch. Their design philosophy doesn't seem to be wholly based around what is going to be most popular but rather seems like "passion projects" from within the team. They've said as much when explaining how something like Red Death came into being. They have the data and know that most of their player base doesn't touch multiplayer. I'm sure they knew that Red Death wouldn't change that, but they toyed around with it at the office and they enjoyed it so they implemented it. I have no doubt that had they released an expansion, things like secret societies would have still been implemented in some form, possibly as scenarios instead of game modes, but how is that functionally different for the people who don't like it?

My conclusions is that while they absolutely could design the game better in certain areas, this is not a NFP vs expansion issue. It's a philosophy/implementation issue.

You make a good and valid point, even though I don't agree completely with your conclusion. There's no denying that implementation, and choices made wrt. implementation, plays a major role (as well). World Congress is a great example of that. [On a sidenote: I can't help but comment on the fact that many of the choices made wrt. WC directly reflect complaints people had about Civ5, i.e. resolutions were permanent, WC leader had too much power and could be abused, WC overall being too restrictive on game play - and now people complain over exactly the opposite: Resolutions are too random and inconsequential.]

When that's said, I do think that the game mode idea has some inherent limitations. It's probably true that when considering each game mode in isolation, it's only a question of philosophy and resources how deeply it gets integrated in core game. But once you start to have a multitude of game modes that can and shall be usable in whatever combination the player desires, I think things start to get much more complicated. Is it possible to code it so that each game mode ties into AI, diplomacy, economy and grand strategy without having the different code elements conflict with each other? I have my doubts. That's where I see the old-fashioned expansion and scenario approach have its strengths. If you play Red Death or Pirates, each of these scenarios have their individual game rules that can be however elaborate as the designers choose, because you can't play Red Death AND Pirates at the same time. Similarly if you had an expansion add, say, Corporations, Barbarian Tribes and Heroes - and only those, just to name some more or less random subset - you could try to integrate those as a collected package, and you'd only have that one configuration to take care of.

 

[KayAU]

My overall conclusion:
I think NFP could have been a fine expansion pack featuring these elements:

• Expanded and integrated Corporations feature
• Expanded Barb feature
• Minor content as is with small adjustments
• A general balance pass on World Congress (ok probably rather: A complete reworking!) which includes Ideologies in some way (possibly drawing on some features of what is currently Secret Societies)

I mostly agree. I would have certainly preferred fewer, more polished and integrated features. Monopolies and Barbarians are the two obvious candidates for integration with the main game, and the World Congress is the pre-existing system most in need of a complete redesign.

I did personally enjoy Secret Societies, though, and keep it toggled on in every game. I accept that people might dislike the fantasy elements, and reworking it into something more akin to social policies/ideologies is a good idea. I generally like bonus trees, as they add long term goals while not increasing micro management. Civ 5 has Social Policies/Ideologies. Beyond Earth has Virtues. Stellaris has Traditions (and Ascension Perks), and Europa Universalis has National Ideas. I think Civ 6 could have benefitted from having something similar.

 

[kaspergm]

I generally like bonus trees, as they add long term goals while not increasing micro management. Civ 5 has Social Policies/Ideologies. (...) I think Civ 6 could have benefitted from having something similar.

I agree 100 %. I always think what how amazing the Civ5 policy system could have been if ALL policies had trees that you could select from - like the ideologies had - instead of just the same 5 policies each game. Of course we did get something a bit like that with Governors in Civ6, the only problem being that those are generally quite lackluster and suffer from micromanagement syndrome.

 

[KayAU]

I agree 100 %. I always think what how amazing the Civ5 policy system could have been if ALL policies had trees that you could select from - like the ideologies had - instead of just the same 5 policies each game. Of course we did get something a bit like that with Governors in Civ6, the only problem being that those are generally quite lackluster and suffer from micromanagement syndrome.

Yeah, I dont care for Governors. I dislike the micro management of moving them around, and their effects are all local, so it's not a good alternative to a proper bonus tree. As for Civ 5's...yes, I did tend to chose the same ones every time, at least for the early game. Vox Populi redid them though, and did a pretty good job of balancing them out. I also appreciate that there was a diplomatic effect to your choices.