Playing China

[zuraffo]

I am just curious how people would advice using China. I will just share some thoughts here in hope to draw out more advice and opinions. So any advice would help! Assume Monarch, Standard, Normal on an either Terra, Hemispheres, Big/Small and all the rest of the .

Overview:

I find that since the change in Warlords, China has become a somewhat harder to use but more interesting and more nuanced civ. It's rather versatile with great viability towards cultural victory or a more militaristic approach. The leaders traits also synergies very well with the UU and UB.

Choice of Leaders:

Both are protective (which synergies very well with the chokuno), and Qin has a leaning towards cultural built well Mao has a leadning towards a more militaristic approach. Although the actual strategy depends much more on the starting location than the chosen leaders.

Chokonu and Protective:

I find Chokonu one of the more credible medieval range units which can be used as city assaults. the ability to hold them after taking down a city is a nice plus. Thus, invariably in most Chinese game I play, I almost always initiated a war or two during medieval time for strategic expansion (Resource, location, etc), even when I am going for cultural win. It is dependant on IRON though so to be able to locate and connect to Iron is vital.

Pavillion:

This is where I think the Chinese Civ truly shines. I would suggest that Pavilion, being half a broadcast tower, available during ancient age, no less, is one of the better UB in the game. It especially shines when combine with early Wonders, those 25% quickly add up. But even on secondary cities (non-wonders), the cultural bonus quickly adds up. Because this bonus is unique and cannot be replicated by other Civ except via the 3 modern times wonders (Broadway, RocknRoll, Hollywood), your chinese empire's culture will on the average higher than another civ of similar configuration. High culture is generally useful, even for offensive purposes.

Religion:

Being non-religious, the only Religion you have any hope of founding is perhaps Confucianism, failing which, Taoism (somewhat historical accurate). But getting Swedagon Paya and go for free religion might be a good idea, especially if you have gain multiple religion from your neighbours early on.

Overall:

China is what I call early/medieval advantage civ. Which means you need to establish some sort of primacy during the early part of your game and ride it out. If you fall behind, comeback is generally harder with Chinese Civ. You also have a single window period of (easy) expansion during medieval times (before gunpowder) because chokonu can down cities quite effeciently assuming same or earlier era troops.

 

[Elandal]

Industrious Qin could go for a gambit of:
1) Oracle -> MC
2) chop forge and run engineer
3) Great Engineer that can lightbulb Machinery

It's possible to get Chokuno's extremely early this way, and MC with Oracle is perfectly viable on Monarch.

Of course Mao can do the same, but Qin's Industrious has synergies with both wonder building and forges, making this a natural approach (except for the GE generation - bulbing Machinery is special approach always).

Pavillion obviously points towards cultural win, but I don't much care for that so I usually just ignore it (or rather treat it just like any other theatre).


In any case, there aren't that many special issues. China has good medieval UU that prompts towards warring in that era, and a gambit to get that unit extremely early. Other than that, China works just like any other civ: starting techs I like, UU is good, leaders are OK.

 

[oyzar]

there have been several threads in this forum about the usefulness of cho-no-kus. there was even a thread made where people did walk through on the Chinese. Search the forums and you will find. In mp i find oracle for mc then researching machinery(after you have esential worker techs + iron working) while expanding is fairly powerful given that most people use meele units for fighting the Chinese UU is arguably among the most powerful in the game.

 

[kakitadairu]

Leaders: Mao is the better of the two leaders because of his cheaper Workers and Granneries. Industrious is a second-rate leader trait: there are better things to build than wonders and better techs to research than religious/ aesthetic techs.

Like all Protective leaders, your optimal strategy will be to war with Acemen/ Macemen to get them to CR3 while beelining for Rifling so you can promote to CR3/Drill1/CG1 Riflemen (and later on Infantry/ Mechanized Infantry).

China has the best starting technology combination in the game (Agriculture/ Mining).
Tech:
Bronze Working -> Roads -> Pottery -> Writing -> Maths -> Currency
Build:
Worker -> Grannery -> Settler -> Barracks -> Axemen -> Library

Your workers are awesome right off the bat being able to both build mines and farms: BW lets them chop and Pottery lets them cottage: You don't need any other worker techs beyond this, freeing you to beeline for economy techs and macemen.

Post-currency, you get to Civil Service either via:
Code of Laws or
Mysticism -> Meditation -> Priesthood -> Monarchy -> Feudalism

There's no rush for Drama for the Pavillion: It can be leveraged late game, where it becomes the first build after capturing an enemy city. Its excellent in that role (similar to Greek Odeon). Although the Golden Age from the Free Artist at the end of the Aesthetics detour (Aesthetics -> Literature/Drama -> Music) is great, generally speaking if you want the Great Artist you have to go with the cheaper Literature or else the AI will beat you to it (at least on Immortal), so you end up not getting Drama anyway.

If you beeline for Macemen, because of China's accelerated start you should have at least 20-30 more turns for the Macemen to wreck havoc before the AI develops X-Bows.

Finally, join Great Generals with your super Macemen so they upgrade into super Riflemen/ Infantry that will lead your armies to a late- game conquest/ domination push.

Your back-up strategy with China, if you get to a slow start, is to stop the war-mongering and embrace sea trade. Stay in no religion/ free religion and beeline to Astronomy for intercontinental trade routes. Immediately switch to a Cottage economy, start collecting religions and build some monasteries before Scientific Method, butter up one of the AI's for a post- communism Permanent Alliance, and switch to cultural victory post- electricity beeline.

Cheers,

Dai

 

[gettingfat]

Haha, two days ago I played Qin. I went for the Oracle-MC-forge-machinery gambit. I built the Oracle, get MC, chopped a forge in another city. While waiting for the great engineerer, I researched hunting, archery, then ironwork. I went for archery first because I don't have copper and I need better units vs the barbarians. OK, only a few turns to see my precious GE. Everything is on schedule. Julius was my neighbour, go to hxll praets! Feel the power of CKN!

Ironwork discovered....and..... I saw no iron anywhere near! Two iron mines were deep in Julius' land.

Any gambit can backfire on you!

 

[madscientist]

I am a Monarch.marathon player who recently switched to standard sized maps rather than huge maps mostly due to the BTS changes (my computer really clogs up near the modern era). I also play very logically, playing every leader until I have won with each, retiring them and moving on. I also spread out the traits as much as I can, meaning never play industrious twice in a row, and make sure all traits have been evenly played.

My first 4 BTS games were with the 4 civc with 3 leaders (Roosevelt, CHurchill, Peter, Louis), now moving onto to those with 2 leaders left (finished Darius, Boudica, Ghengis, Ghandi) and looking at leaders with traits that I have used only once which leaves me Hatshepsut/Victoria/Mao.

I started with Mao and here are some ideas/views for my 2 starts so far (first was a bust)

1) First attempt: Emperor. Fast BW followed by copper in Bejing's BFC and a VERY close Gilgamesh and Frederick. I took out Fred real fast, and had a very long war against Gilg who I finally eliminated. I found myself overexpanded, and running a SE to try and keep up with Hannibal and Darius techwise who were on other land masses. Hannibal got Feudalism in the BC (teched, not oracled!) and found myself hopelessly behind. I gave up. But defeinitely this game illustrates Maos early warring abilitites.

2) Exact opposite at Monarch. No easy copper or horses, lot's of forrests and good grassland river tiles. Hyuna to my south (very close) who had copper/iron/horse and founded Buddhism. Wonders are falling left and right (I lost out to Hyuna on the pyramids, but the lost cash fuelded my economy for a long time). I agressively pursued a CE while blockign him off to the south with my next 2 cities (I did collect stone doing this). I am the tech leader now and finally got an iron city since my economy could support it (It is far away in bad land). I was able to expand real fast because of fast graneries and workers, health is not an issue. The key to this game is agressively pursuing a peaceful expansion, utilizing the protective trait and hopefully using diplomacy until I can get the Cho-nuks.

My point is that Mao is a very versatile leader, not pulled in any direction but can adapt to most situations. Qin is a very stronge candidate also although his traits favor culture wins.

OK, Here is a question on my current Mao game.

I am in a real big culture war with Hyuna to the south and I am not equipped to go to war at the moment (Hyuna can destroy me easily). He's got quite a few wonders (I think Agustus got some too) and those UBs. Once I get Drama and the Pavillions in the southern 2 cities how long will it take to reverse the cultural effects from HCs UBs.

 

[eewallace]

I just won a cultural victory with Qin (noble, on a standard hemispheres map). I had the north tip of a long skinny continent, with caesar and willem in the middle and victoria in the south. I figured I might be toast given the roman's awesome early abilities, but they too out the dutch and left me alone. So I got to hunker down and rapidly expand. It became clear by my fourth city that I was going to be in a great position for wonder-building, with the industriious trait and both marble and stone, so my first, second and fourth cities became culture cities. I used oracle to grab code of laws and founded confucianism and immediately chopped courthouses. I also ended up with christianity (taoism would have been better...) and nine cities, including two barbarian cities (one by culture flipping). Caesar and victoria adopted confucianism and I remained buddies with them throughout the game. Only one short, defensive war (Hannibal arriving by sea???) that hardly even slowed me down. Pavilions are awesome!

 

[vicawoo]

Qin is the best crossbow protective leader. I usually tech machinery and ironworking (oracle metallurgy, teach monarchy, ironworking, machinery). If I had a GE, I might try to use him on pyramids.

Mao's advantage is that your economy will be in much more developed due to 1 pop granaries.

 

[madscientist]

Just a followup on the second Mao game I posted. I ended going to war against Hyuna in the middles ages with Cho-nuks and trebs, kicking him off the continent and vassaling him. The cultural pressure was too severe as he had several wonders in teh border cities. Cuzco made a great GP farm, and Bejing and Shandlai were great science cities and currently great production cities for space ship parts. Almost done with the spaceship and the protective trait plus the stolen statue of Zues from HC have allows me to be free from enemy attack.

Just an example of using Mao's traits and UU/UB. A peaseful spaceship launch.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

China has the best starting technology combination in the game (Agriculture/ Mining).
Tech:
Bronze Working -> Roads -> Pottery -> Writing -> Maths -> Currency
Build:
Worker -> Grannery -> Settler -> Barracks -> Axemen -> Library

In many situations, playing at normal speed, you can improve on this a little bit by training a warrior prior to the first worker. There's a little bit of micromanagement involved, but you can take advantage of Slavery to get some extra hammers. You trade a one turn delay [anarchy cost] for a warrior on turn 10.

 

[gettingfat]

China has the best starting technology combination in the game (Agriculture/ Mining).
Tech:
Bronze Working -> Roads -> Pottery -> Writing -> Maths -> Currency
Build:
Worker -> Grannery -> Settler -> Barracks -> Axemen -> Library

Actually, not necessary. to me hunting is the best starting tech, especially at higher levels. Hunting itself sux but it gives you a scout to start off the bat, who may bring you a bonus tech and cash by popping more huts with better results. You also reveal the areas near your capital earlier, which means you know who and where your nearest neighbours are some turns earlier, and where the important resources are, and design your early strategy accordingly.