Playing On Small Islands Etc.

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by brewgod, Mar 1, 2013.

  1. brewgod

    brewgod Prince

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    Hello Fellow Die Hard Civ Fans...

    I enjoy playing on small islands etc. on Civ 4 yet the game for me seems to be how to research sailing and astronomy the quickest and get perhaps the Great Lighthouse.

    Does playing as Vikings help significantly since they pioneered the ocean seas long before anyone else. If Vikings is not the best choice when playing on islands which Civ works best to achieve expansion to other islands to grow your empire. That is to start building Ships etc.

    Any pro or con comments would be great.

    Thanks

    Brew God
     
  2. TheMulattoMaker

    TheMulattoMaker Dictator of RF

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    Not many civs have much of an advantage when it comes to ships. Vikings like you mentioned are probably the best, especially early on. Their UB is a lighthouse that gives all ships made there an extra movement point. That means pre-Age of Sail, your navy moves 50% faster than everybody else's. (EDIT: They still get the +1MP later on, it's just more pronounced when ships only have two moves.) Also their UU starts with Amphib so it's much easier to do sudden attacks from the sea. Unfortunately, Bersekers obsolete pretty quickly, but if you've got the money you can upgrade them to amphibious riflemen.

    The Portuguese Carrack can make a big difference if there's a lot of open ocean separating landmasses. Basically you can move armies and settlers to new lands with Optics while everybody else has to wait for Astronomy. And their UB (while not exactly top-tier) acts like the Colossus in every city that builds one.

    Then there's the Dutch. Their UB is basically like a Moai in every city. Their UU is a very strong early sailing boat with an extra cargo space. Somebody recently (I think it was TMIT) showed how on the right map, and used properly, East Indiamen are absolute game-wreckers.

    Other than that, I'd say it's all about traits. Water-heavy maps mean lots of cities working coastal tiles, so Financial can make a pretty big difference. Industrious (if you wanna wonderwhore it up) lets you get TGL and Colossus which can both be game-changers. You're right about Great Lighthouse, it's a huge advantage on Archipelago maps.
     
  3. Drakarska

    Drakarska Epic Dadness

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    Add England to your list there as well. 'Liz is PHI/FIN, and an absolute witch on water maps, especially if she can get to Astro quickly. Granted, the above civs have an advantage in the early game, but if she survives to the era, she balloons big time into a major power house.. Lol, at least in my games she does.
    Inca can throw you a surprise as well, they seafaring trait ( at least in the mods that I play) and have a nasty habit of doing early quencha amphib ops that can ruin your whole day.
     
  4. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    I'd throw in Mehmed of Ottomans as a interesting watery choice. His traits are well suited with lots of discounted buildings like Lighthouses and Harbors. Combined with his UB you can grow very large early coastal cities to make the most of trade routes, which is often the main source of commerce on these maps. With the already discounted maintenance, plus cheap CHs, you can build GLH and spam cities to your heart content while setting up a very nice economy.
     
  5. TheMulattoMaker

    TheMulattoMaker Dictator of RF

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    Oh, and I forgot the Carthaginian UB is a harbor that gives a free trade route.
     
  6. GKey

    GKey Emperor

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    Definitely Portuguese. Carracks come so much earlier then galleons and cost cheaper, even with 1 less cargo space are perfect to carry settler + worker/defender.
     
  7. calibur

    calibur Prince

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    Vikings, Portuguese, Dutch, England, Ottomans, Carthage...
    Mightn't Rome possibly be a contender? Spain?
     
  8. backthief

    backthief Chieftain

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    Portuguese are the best for expansion. You can occupy a far away island before anyone else.
     
  9. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    Portuguese Carrack is okay, but it really is not that hard to set up almost insta-Astro as soon as you tech Optics or bulb all three. Astro in the early ADs is reasonable if you shoot for it.
     
  10. Ghpstage

    Ghpstage Deity

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    I like Aztecs for these maps, Spiritual with the Sac Altar are even better than usual due to the abundance of food and food neutral tiles.
     
  11. Qgqqqqq

    Qgqqqqq Emperor

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    Dutch definitely have the strongest combo, with the useful CRE trait for cities without first ring food, the FIN trait which pretty much everyone has (water related civs that is - exception of Portuguese, which is why I don't think they're a contender), and the super powerful dike.

    East indiamen are also pretty good, but largely for strength, not cargo space.
    Vikings or Carthage would be second, depending really on the viability of other factors (early war, map size for routes), with me generally favoring carthage, as a archipelago map will want the cheap border pops anyway, and happy helps for whipping/food heavy.

    Portugese fall out IMO because they a) don't have the financial trait - a massive loss on a fishing map, and b) the're UU aren't as useful as they seem - feitoras are rarely worth the expensive price tag, and carracks aren't actually that useful on archipelagos (yeah its helpful for a bit, but there are rarely valuable intercontinental stuff on a archipelago, and if there is you'll want to obsolete them ASAP for the overseas routes.
     
  12. Zet

    Zet Warlord

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    The Dutch. Cities tend to be low on hammers and dikes allow even cities on 1 tile of land to become industrial powerhouses (relatively speaking). Not having to build culture buildings saves a lot of precious hammers in the early game and lets you pick optimal cities positions.

    Dike + Moai + Ironworks = massive production (for the typical island city at least). In my last game I had 186 hammers in such a city, with only 1 tile of land being used.
     
  13. Ataxerxes

    Ataxerxes Deity

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    I'd agree with Zet. The Dike comes into its own on water maps. Overall there are better UBs but on small islands the Dike is one of the best. If you get to Astro first you can do wicked things with their UU. Blockade ports, sink ships, whatever. If there's somebody you want to seriously hurt at that time,the East Indiaman can do it. It doesn't have a counter in its era, which really makes it good. If you blockade an enemy on small islands you really hurt his economy and pick up some spare gold yourself.

    Really, everything works for the Dutch.
     
  14. calibur

    calibur Prince

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    If we were to do a map with, say, the eight best water civs, what would they be?
    Some are easy- portugese, Dutch, Vikings... English and ottomans were suggested. But who else?
     
  15. Funky

    Funky Emperor

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    For me it's between the Dutch and the Inca. The advantages of the Dutch are obvious and have already been mentioned. The Incan benefits are less evident at first, but IMO they are just as strong. Since Archipelago maps don't require any military for the first half of the game, they can focus on wonders and should be able to get most of them with their industrious trait. Especially the Colossus, which is ridiculously powerful on these types of maps, but also the GLH, the Great Library and other useful wonders. Other factors being roughly equal, this should give them a substantial advantage.

    The dutch could try to beeline the colossus too. But to get their UU, they will want to rush towards astronomy quickly, which will obsolete it. The Inca on the other hand can delay astronomy as long as possible. For defense of their coast they go for iron clads. That way they can make maximum profit out of the colossus, which can make all the difference. They won't be expanding obviously, but by building research instead of ships and units they will increase their tech lead even further and don't actually need to expand at all. On the other hand, the dutch shine in the late game with their dikes of course, so in conclusion I find both equally strong.
     
  16. Drakarska

    Drakarska Epic Dadness

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    I've never found Rome or Spain to be much of a threat on water maps. Ironic actually, given their history's.
     
  17. Qgqqqqq

    Qgqqqqq Emperor

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    When every city is coastal, and every route is intercontinental, id say GLH is stronger then the collosus.
    But yeah it can be fun late game to avoid it, particularly if you have henge as well.

    Beyond the obvious Civs, it all comes down to traits really - id say the likes of darius, zara, pacal, mehmed would dominate.
     
  18. Funky

    Funky Emperor

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    The Colossus is MUCH stronger than the GLH on island maps, since the GLH will be close to obsolete when you discover other civs and the trade routes become intercontinental. Delaying corporations doesn't make much sense, because it gives an extra trade route in itself and you'll want the mining corp which is not far away. It's still a good wonder of course, giving each city two free commerce initially. But the colossus will give each city three or four times as much, and some cities even more. Anyway, to my point of the Inca being one of the most powerful island map civs, they can usually get both!
     
  19. Funky

    Funky Emperor

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    For me the eight best island civs are (in this order):

    1. Inca/Dutch
    3. English with Lizzy
    4. Vikings
    5. Carthage
    6. Portuguese
    7. Mali
    8. Korea
     
  20. Packers5280

    Packers5280 Deity

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    If you're not Dutch, you're not much*... :D :lol: :smug:

    *I am of Dutch heritage, so I do qualify as "much"...;)
     

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