Playing the Maya

[twilson1972]

Hey all

Im working my way through all the civs, playing immortal difficulty.

I have won on deity, but to be honest i find it stressful so tend to prefer immortal.

So next up come the maya, usually when i pick a new civ i read up on it, and decide on a strategy, but with the maya im unsure where to go.

The pyramid is a decent building, but it suggests i need to go wide to see a big benefit (it is not as good as stele to me).

And the free great people- i can see why atlatist is there (to allow theology before archery) but i actually think it may hurt an SV as free merchants/engineers will hit my GS generation.

So...in summary im unsure how to play them.

How do you play the maya? wide? do you tend to go for domination?

Thanks

 

[kaspergm]

To call the Pyramid a "decent building" is what I'd call a serious understatement, imo. it's one of the, if not *the* best UB in the game. I would definitely go wide as Maya and very high focus on religion and Science. It's true that the free Great Engineer will slow down you GS production, but (at least on Emperor) I find the value of a free key wonder more than easily makes up for this. Grab the Engineer as your first or second GP to get one of the tasty medieval/renaissance wonders (Alhambra, Notre Dame, Forbidden Palace or Leaning Tower are all obvious candidates).

 

[Kullervo]

Honestly, even if you choose to go tall as the Maya, the Pyramid still shines. You don't have THAT many sources of science in the early eras, and +2 science from a very cheap building that could have a ton of other things attached to it through policies and religions is amazing.

As the Maya, I'll generally crank out 3 or 4 cities as fast as I can, and then start snagging a few juicy wonders that I have a shot at thanks to faster than usual teching. Then, around the late Middle/early Renaissance era, I'll begin expanding faster again, with maybe one or two cities between if I find a really nice location for them.

 

[reddishrecue]

Just get them cities out and you'll be alright.

 

[twilson1972]

Well it turned out to be a traditional 4 city start and SV... a slow one though (turn 320)

The pyramids are nice after all i agree, i did find the bonus great people to be 'ok' rather than great.

On to trying the Indonesians on small continents now

Thanks all.

 

[Volentia]

One thing i really like to do with the Maya is popping a very early second Great Prophet and converting some key cities to dominate religiously my continent. If your religion is boosted with Gold per cities or Science per cities it can be super good (and fun)

 

[twilson1972]

I ended up using my prophet trying to keep my religion!

I had the byzantines and celts in my game and i wasnt sure how they had time to build anything else with the volume of missionaries they sent...

I do think the diplomacy options with banning missionaries is poor (you ask once for them to stop and thats it)

 

[sunbeam]

I ended up using my prophet trying to keep my religion!

I had the byzantines and celts in my game and i wasnt sure how they had time to build anything else with the volume of missionaries they sent...

I do think the diplomacy options with banning missionaries is poor (you ask once for them to stop and thats it)

I really wanted to play with religion but I found it so super exhausting I gave up.

Maybe you guys constantly scan every tile every turn for a missionary or Great Prophet, but that is not what I call fun.

I've tried the religious texts enhancer, built Grand Temple. I've never gotten this "self sustaining pressure" thing to work.

The AI civs will beat you down in the end. I've toyed with the idea of declaring war on people like Boudicca, but while historically accurate, am I getting enough benefit from religion to warrant a war just for that? I've also tried spreading it with missionaries and prophets to key cities, but that eats all my faith points and leaves me with the question of why I was bothering with this whole thing in the first place.

I mean if the idea of religion is to spam missionaries and prophets in a never ending conversion battle, instead of using those points to buy great people and buildings, it doesn't seem worth it.

I've actually had more trouble with this kind of thing from civs that found Islam: Morocco, Arabia, (Songhai?). They just spam like crazy. I know what Boudicca's rep is, but they actually seem worse about it.

Just doesn't seem worth it to race for things like Great Mosque and spend all those policy points in Piety to achieve something that goes away with one Great Prophet you didn't see in time.

Or you could just surround your city with units or do some kind of movement kung fu to block them, but I really do not care to do something I find ridiculous or micromanage that much.

So I'll leave religion to the good players.

 

[claudiupb]

You can buy an early inquisitor (medieval/renaissance) and keep it in that city. If you have an inquisitor in that city the AI will not attempt to convert it. If you have a good road network, you can use a single inquisitor and just move it around cities (or plant one for each city if you hate micro managing that - but that is just wasting faith). Eventually he will pick other targets and the prophets will go away.

 

[consentient]

If you watch Acken's Video LP of the DCL #12 (Maya), you will see an example of peaceful Liberty culture.

My own preference is to go Honor left side, building Atlatists instead of scouts and getting them experience as quickly as possible, then having devastating XBs by around T90 and hammering all and sundry.

They are a really, really great civ. Hope you have really good fun with them!

 

[twilson1972]

i ended up surrounding my cities and even surrounded a GP when i saw him enter my land

I think diplomacy needs a 'stop sending missionaries or it is war' option myself.

And to consentient, next time i play them ill try that, i always tend to slide into SV, but it gets boring.

 

[beetle]

i did find the bonus great people to be 'ok' rather than great

I agree with this. It seems to be the most hyped aspect of the civ but is actually the least important thing to me, even though I do beeline Theology to get the extra one, and asap too. The GP are not extra so much as early. Getting GP early is strong, but just not as strong as the UB and UU.

 

[docbud]

You can buy an early inquisitor (medieval/renaissance) and keep it in that city. If you have an inquisitor in that city the AI will not attempt to convert it. If you have a good road network, you can use a single inquisitor and just move it around cities (or plant one for each city if you hate micro managing that - but that is just wasting faith). Eventually he will pick other targets and the prophets will go away.

But there are times when AI prophets are already being annoying before you can buy an inquisitor. I had that problem in a recent game. So I surrounded my capital with units. Just for the heck of it, when the AI great prophet moved away, I moved one unit away from my capital. The next turn, the AI great prophet came scurrying back over. Then left again when I put the unit back. Rinse and repeat dozens of times.

And even when you have a couple of inquisitors to try to cover several cities, it gets annoying. I have better things to do then constantly moving an inquisitor to one city to stop a great prophet, and then having to move it back to the original position because the great prophet heads in that direction the next turn. Rinse and repeat countless times.

It's really annoying and childish.

 

[reddishrecue]

To be honest, the atlalist is ok also because its primitive which allows you to build it asap without needing archery but archery is an important technology that beelines to the wheel. Other civilizations will end up with archers fast enough at least in the quick speed.

 

[beetle]

But there are times when AI prophets are already being annoying before you can buy an inquisitor.

That is a good point. Your religion is most vulnerable before you enhance. And often after that there might not be much warning that faith for an inquisitors is needed. Most games I have very little problem keeping my religion, so I am not in the habit of routinely buying them ASAP.

So I surrounded my capital with units. Just for the heck of it, when the AI great prophet moved away, I moved one unit away from my capital. The next turn, the AI great prophet came scurrying back over. Then left again when I put the unit back. Rinse and repeat dozens of times.

In this situation, the thing to do is to escort the GPr away from your territory. Escorting (1) ties up fewer units than a static wall of units, and (2) eventually resolves the issue, rather than just being an endless cycle. The AIs generally have more patience than you, but they also are compelled to move the GPr every turn.

 

[docbud]

^^How do you escort the GP away? Just movings units up to try to force him to move away? Usually, he'll just beeline it for a different city of mine.

 

[Crus8r]

But there are times when AI prophets are already being annoying before you can buy an inquisitor. I had that problem in a recent game. So I surrounded my capital with units. Just for the heck of it, when the AI great prophet moved away, I moved one unit away from my capital. The next turn, the AI great prophet came scurrying back over. Then left again when I put the unit back. Rinse and repeat dozens of times.

And even when you have a couple of inquisitors to try to cover several cities, it gets annoying. I have better things to do then constantly moving an inquisitor to one city to stop a great prophet, and then having to move it back to the original position because the great prophet heads in that direction the next turn. Rinse and repeat countless times.

So capitalize on it... in my current game, when Hiawatha sent a prophet at me, I decided we would soon be at war and bought an inquisitor, then danced him in and out of my city, tying down that prophet. About 20 turns later, a second prophet showed up near another city, so I did the same there. By the time a third prophet showed up, I had had ample time to build and position units to capture all his prophets and pillage all his trade routes the same turn... next turn, I had two new holy sites, the third prophet only had 2 spreads left, so no holy site, but even though he was the "wrong" religion, I still got very good use out of him by sending him to distant cities that were too big for him to actually convert, just to remove the pressure they were exerting on MY religion

Crus8r

 

[docbud]

^^I'll keep that in mind

 

[beetle]

^^How do you escort the GP away? Just movings units up to try to force him to move away? Usually, he'll just beeline it for a different city of mine.

Yes. As compared to missionaries, GPr only have a move of 2. Still, you need about four units, but they can be civilians. You are just leaving him moves that are away from your territory, it shouldn’t matter that he picks a different city. Try to pin him into the water (he will go) or best is towards barbs. Just trying to push him back to where he came from won’t work, but you should be able to redirect to some new direction.

 

[docbud]

^^I'll try that next time. Thanks, beetle.