Please Delete Scythia From The Game

kamex

Emperor
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Rome and Germany are strong but Scythia is something else. What an absolute joke. Rush Horsemen and spam until everyone around you is dead. That's all - nothing else too it. So stupidly overpowered even a first time player could win on Immortal by doing it.

The +50 healing is absurd. It works even on defense. And it works in Theological combat too!?

Horsemen have no real counter - Spearmen are weak, and Horsemen get no penalty attacking cities. They have walls? No problem, just spam away anyway, you'll still take it.

You don't even need the UU. Its just a joke.

Even if you don't play them, they can still ruin your game by stating next to you and rushing you. Its so strong, even the stupid AI can do it successfully. There's no defense - they are the only civ anyone should ever play in multiplayer. Period.
 

RickF7666

Chieftain
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
8
Location
Oldsmar, FL
If you can kill her civ before she gets the tech to build horse units then your fine. Also I don't think I like that unique units don't need any resources. She can build her horse archer without any access to horses and Rome can build Legionaries without iron.
 

Kelmort83

Chieftain
Joined
Nov 12, 2016
Messages
46
I might be wrong because I only play vs AI right now, but Archer shut down horsemen rush pretty hard. They cost less, they are obtained earlier, they have range and pretty good upgrade in term of dps.

And about Spearmen / Hoplite, you are not supposed to attack with them (imo). Fortified on a forest / hill. Horsemen wont be able to kill him while your archer destroy him.

In MP you always have to be ready, skipping units in the early era will result in defeat b4 turn 100 vs clever opponents.

The best rush are done "alas" starcraft, you scout your ennemy while your army march toward him and you settle behind to make road for your unit being made.

By the time scythia have access to equitation, I bet you can have 6 fortified warrior surrounding her city while making archers; and she won't have wall because it's out of the way in her bee-lining.

Or you could out expand her and go for horsemen too; to overcome her healing trait, you need to have multiple attacker to eliminate at least 1 unit by turn.

Like someone said about Deity, don't attack if you can't kill because Deity get extra exp and will just heal up, same goes for her.
 
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LordHandsome

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Joined
Dec 20, 2016
Messages
1
They may initially shut down the first wave of horsemen/horsearcher rush, but you can very easily lose the war of attrition. For every archer you create, Scythia gets two, that goes for horseman or their UU. Not saying it always happens, but that the likliehood of it is very high if you dont jump on them early. I

I might be wrong because I only play vs AI right now, but Archer shut down horsemen rush pretty hard. They cost less, they are obtained earlier, they have range and pretty good upgrade in term of dps.

And about Spearmen / Hoplite, you are not supposed to attack with them (imo). Fortified on a forest / hill. Horsemen wont be able to kill him while your archer destroy him.

In MP you always have to be ready, skipping units in the early era will result in defeat b4 turn 100 vs clever opponents.

The best rush are done "alas" starcraft, you scout your ennemy while your army march toward him and you settle behind to make road for your unit being made.

By the time scythia have access to equitation, I bet you can have 6 fortified warrior surrounding her city while making archers; and she won't have wall because it's out of the way in her bee-lining.

Or you could out expand her and go for horsemen too; to overcome her healing trait, you need to have multiple attacker to eliminate at least 1 unit by turn.

Like someone said about Deity, don't attack if you can't kill because Deity get extra exp and will just heal up, same goes for her.
 

KmDubya

King
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Feb 2, 2008
Messages
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Nong Bua Lam Pha, Thailand
To stop Scythia you need a choke point or at least a defendable city with walls, preferably with hills behind for archers to shoot from. It's a lot better than it was pre-patch, changing the +100% card to +50% helped a bunch in the resource war. You need to get crossbows, pikes or knights to really be able to push her back; swordsmen, spearmen and horsemen lose out resource wise and lack enough power.

Scythia is just a very strong package of an aggressive personality, an easy to use, cheap, spammable horsemen that are viable for a long time before upgrading to Cavalry/helicopters to continue and a powerful heal on kill. Even if Scythia went with archers and swordsmen she'd still be the best warmonger due to the heal on kill.

If nothing else the game is more exciting when she is in it, especially when she is nearby.

With regards to building uniques without resources, I'm glad that that is in the game. Nothing is more annoying than doing a Rome game and not having iron for Legion. In Scythia's case, the Saka horse archer is pretty poor, other than getting two for one. As soon as I can make horsemen the Saka horse archers never get made again.

Just be glad that the super broken sell exploit is gone, Scythia was especially good with the two for one, +100% card and selling horse armies for thousands.
 

gimper42

Warlord
Joined
Sep 1, 2013
Messages
187
Scythia is definitely a beast. The 50hp heals greatly reduce the number of units you will need to produce throughout your game. My very first complete game of Civ 6 was played with Scythia on a continents map, Emperor difficulty. Result was a turn 227 domination victory. Towards the end it really felt like I was playing it rather thin on military units. But I was about 2 tech eras ahead of all but 1 opponent and those 50hp heals kept my front line units in the game nearly 100% of the time. I paused the conquest briefly a few times for upgrades, but rarely needed to stop to heal up for more than a single turn.

They do seem overpowered. But there is an answer to everything. The answer to beating Scythia is the same as beating Shaka in 5: get on him early and never let up until he is wiped out. If you allow them to make an army of light cav and UU's they will probably beat you.
 

Agent327

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Oct 28, 2006
Messages
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Rome and Germany are strong but Scythia is something else. What an absolute joke. Rush Horsemen and spam until everyone around you is dead. That's all - nothing else too it. So stupidly overpowered even a first time player could win on Immortal by doing it.

The +50 healing is absurd. It works even on defense. And it works in Theological combat too!?

Horsemen have no real counter - Spearmen are weak, and Horsemen get no penalty attacking cities. They have walls? No problem, just spam away anyway, you'll still take it.

You don't even need the UU. Its just a joke.

Even if you don't play them, they can still ruin your game by stating next to you and rushing you. Its so strong, even the stupid AI can do it successfully. There's no defense - they are the only civ anyone should ever play in multiplayer. Period.

Disagree. I regularly have Scythia in my games, and they have never gone to the number one position.
 

KmDubya

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Disagree. I regularly have Scythia in my games, and they have never gone to the number one position.

No one is saying that Scythia as the AI can run away with the game. The AI is just incapable of managing a conquest of the world, even with all of Scythia's bonuses. What can and does happen is that a nearby Scythia causes you to profoundly change your gameplan and that allows someone far away to prosper as you are tied up with endless fending off of hordes of horsemen or healing Apostles. Or Scythia manages to crush you and end the game.

AI Scythia isn't going to win but it can cause you to lose.
 

UWHabs

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Oct 10, 2008
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AI Scythia I haven't found to be too much of a problem, although it will vary a lot based on positioning (the only time I dealt with her all she did was give me a ton of weak units to walk through as I was an age ahead of her).

In a human's hands, though, she's just deadly. Early horse rush, and then she sets up perfectly to rush science to cavalry, and then have a mid-game cavalry+siege tower conquest. With the fast production, even if she falls behind a little in tech, she has basically free cavalry corps to build or combine with well promoted earlier horsemen, and it only takes 4 promotions to have the siege tower keep the move points of the cavalry. And Cavalry corps/armies are pretty deadly if you rush to them early, especially if you come from an early edge due to the early rush.
 

Ferocitus

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Disagree. I regularly have Scythia in my games, and they have never gone to the number one position.

The OP is just another in a long line who are blaming the game instead of their own inexperience and incompetence.
 

bladex

Emperor
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Oct 29, 2010
Messages
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she has never proved a problem for me just line your borders with archers you'll be fine.
 

greygamer

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If you are talking about multiplayer, just have a house rule that they cannot be selected. The NQ multiplayer group allow every player to veto a civ before the game starts.
If single player don't play them, they are no worse than Sumeria as a neighbor.
 

kamex

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The OP is just another in a long line who are blaming the game instead of their own inexperience and incompetence.

Yes. Because Scythia and Norway are so balanced. I means its completely equal in multiplayer. 100%
 
Joined
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What can and does happen is that a nearby Scythia causes you to profoundly change your gameplan and that allows someone far away to prosper as you are tied up with endless fending off of hordes of horsemen or healing Apostles. Or Scythia manages to crush you and end the game.

If they are that close they will get crushed by my archer/warrior assault early on. If they aren't that close, the incompetent AI rarely can send enough my way to be a threat. They are someone else's problem. Rarely is attacking your nearest neighbor going to "tie you up" and leave you behind. You have to build a military anyways, so may as well use them. It's quite cost effective.

The biggest problem with them is multipalyer. I don't play mp, but my impression is most people are declaring them off limits so no one selects them.
 

greygamer

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The biggest problem with them is multipalyer. I don't play mp, but my impression is most people are declaring them off limits so no one selects them.

This! Also in solo you can remove any civ in the advanced set-up (not sure if the same is true in MP). The premise of this post seems a little immature
 

KmDubya

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If they are that close they will get crushed by my archer/warrior assault early on. If they aren't that close, the incompetent AI rarely can send enough my way to be a threat. They are someone else's problem. Rarely is attacking your nearest neighbor going to "tie you up" and leave you behind. You have to build a military anyways, so may as well use them. It's quite cost effective.

The biggest problem with them is multipalyer. I don't play mp, but my impression is most people are declaring them off limits so no one selects them.

Let me rephrase.

If they are right next to you they are not a problem as you will get them early with your archers. The issue arises when they are the civ next to the one you are close to and conquer. Then they have enough time to start the horse zerg and your conquest brings you into contact. Lots of time you need to 'digest' the latest conquest and can't just keep rolling on the conquest train.

Or sometimes they are next to you but there is a closer danger that must be sorted first. A situation where Sumeria is very close and occupies your attention with their warcarts while Scythia is on your other side and has time to zerg starting with vulnerable citystates. Worse case you get Scythia joining the adventures of Enkidu and double teaming you.

In cases like that, unless you were planning on a Domination victory anyway, it can screw up your plans. Use all your resources going after a religion (let's say you're Spain and really want to make use of well everything that Spain has) and you can have all your plans ruined by a close but not too close Scythia.
 

Agent327

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No one is saying that Scythia as the AI can run away with the game. The AI is just incapable of managing a conquest of the world, even with all of Scythia's bonuses. What can and does happen is that a nearby Scythia causes you to profoundly change your gameplan and that allows someone far away to prosper as you are tied up with endless fending off of hordes of horsemen or healing Apostles. Or Scythia manages to crush you and end the game.

AI Scythia isn't going to win but it can cause you to lose.

Really? In my experience Kongo is far more OP.
 

c4c6

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In cases like that, unless you were planning on a Domination victory anyway, it can screw up your plans. Use all your resources going after a religion (let's say you're Spain and really want to make use of well everything that Spain has) and you can have all your plans ruined by a close but not too close Scythia.
Great! Entertainment pure. Always winning is boring.
 
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