Please help with mongolia

[foolish123]

Hello guys!

Im kind of new here but not really new for civ and vp. I usually play on deity and I really like the whole steppe nomad theme, and so I really wanted to like mongolia. Except I just cannot make them work... To me it looks like they would be really good and fun as you go down on the difficulties, but not on deity. The UA feels absolutely terrible, partly because the communitas map generator just kind of says "fudge you mongolia". Maps are full of hills, forests and jungles, can hardly utilize the flanking bonus. Been trying to play around with the settings but not much better. Milea's map feels a lot better tho. On deity I got used to the fact that I get outteched very early and skirmishers feel like ass anyways, but when th Ai is running around with longswords, pikemen and knights they are absolutely useless. I feel like there is only a very little time window when I rush mathematics where they can be used before the Ai gets to steel and chivalry. Then when I get to heavy skirmishers, again there is a very narrow window of possible aggression before tercios and crossbows come up. The whole city state bullying also feels like ass, as I found out its only really possible to get good tributre yields in the very very early game before the Ai builds up their army. But then again its only enough for like 2-3 tributes then ur done because your overall military strenght just tanked. Overall I feel like they are the perfect civ for a hardcore game because inevitably you are playing without an UA, the UB is very start dependent. Khans are good tho imo, but they are not enough to make the civ good alone.Also city sieges with horse archers are really bad with the negative modifier. I do believe I should mix and match units but it kinda defeats the whole steppe nomad theme, so im better off playing zulus and sweden. Also their start bias feels really weird. Most of my restarts came from either starting in tundra with full of hills and forests, or middle of the jungle, or getting no or almost no horses at all in the communitas map.
If anyone experienced with mongolia can give a little help i would really appreciate it.

 

[stii]

What you've said is roughly correct. Their abilities are fine but not great. They are a bit below average unless you get a bit lucky with their UI placement. That said you can rush the AI without any bonuses so you certainly can do early attacks with their UU.

 

[andersw]

So there are four things here.
Map: if you choose communita you will get very varied terrain, islands/small continents etc.
Test plains, pangea or some of the bigger land maps they are a much better option for Mongolia.
Difficulty: Diety is rough, I dont play diety myself, and there you should expect to be behind in most if not all respects.
If you think the game is stupid because you cant beat Diety think again.
Mongolia: Bullying is something you can do at times, its not free yields to just have, you need an army to bully, take the opportunity when you can but dont try to build your game around it.
Heavy skirmishers are strong but dont expect them to breeze stuff that is one tier ahead. The extra move mean they should never die ... as long as there is space to retreat.
Line Breaks: You could make a line break here and there, its tedious to read big chunks of text like that.

 

[foolish123]

So there are four things here.
Map: if you choose communita you will get very varied terrain, islands/small continents etc.
Test plains, pangea or some of the bigger land maps they are a much better option for Mongolia.
Difficulty: Diety is rough, I dont play diety myself, and there you should expect to be behind in most if not all respects.
If you think the game is stupid because you cant beat Diety think again.
Mongolia: Bullying is something you can do at times, its not free yields to just have, you need an army to bully, take the opportunity when you can but dont try to build your game around it.
Heavy skirmishers are strong but dont expect them to breeze stuff that is one tier ahead. The extra move mean they should never die ... as long as there is space to retreat.
Line Breaks: You could make a line break here and there, its tedious to read big chunks of text like that.

Okay I can make line breaks for you.
Base maps just doesnt feel good anymore.
I am well aware about deity, I didn'r really ask for and education about it. And I didnt even say it was stupid. I am saying you get punished a lot more with mongolia when pumping up the difficulty than any other civ.
Its literally the second half of their UA. As they dont have anything that helps them either with culture or science or anything. So bullying city states for yields would be the way to at least get something (especially on higher difficulties). Imo something like what the Zulu UA does where u are more effective at intimidating city states should be way better for mongolia.
Heavy skirmishers are good indeed but the movement is not enough to kite properly. Especially when Ai just bombrush you with knights and later lancers. They will kill hewavy skirmishers and you simply cant go in, shoot, and get out againts them. Its not even always possible againts infantry. They shouldve just halved the movement bonus in their previous UA. It would still be better than what they have now.

 

[azum4roll]

Are you utilizing Ordos enough? They can recharge all your moves once you hit Gunpowder (given enough clicks). You can funnel every single one of your skirmishers through it if you have a good road network around it. The AI can never get near this way, and you can use that stronghold to grind down their troops.

 

[andersw]

I was out of the loop, I think I forgot they lost its +2 skirmisher move and mongolia mostly just felt bad.
The CS bully thing provides some gold very early when you meet them but that falls off hard.