Please remove empty techs

[Talin2009]

Or at least make them 1 beaker.

All those Games, Board Games, Ideograms, Meritocracy etc. etc. etc.

Until they are filled with units/buildings/wonders etc.

With increased research times it is absolutely no fun (and no reason) to wait for 10-20 turns for EMPTY placeholder tech. It takes away time and fun.

WHEN and only when tech is non empty it should be given research investment value.

Situation stays like this for months with only more of empty techs being added. I honestly don't think half-made placeholder stuff should be put into releases in such quantities.

Sorry if i offended anybody, i didn't mean to.

 

[ls612]

Or at least make them 1 beaker.

All those Games, Board Games, Ideograms, Meritocracy etc. etc. etc.

Until they are filled with units/buildings/wonders etc.

With increased research times it is absolutely no fun (and no reason) to wait for 10-20 turns for EMPTY placeholder tech. It takes away time and fun.

WHEN and only when tech is non empty it should be given research investment value.

Situation stays like this for months with only more of empty techs being added. I honestly don't think half-made placeholder stuff should be put into releases in such quantities.

Sorry if i offended anybody, i didn't mean to.

I'm not offended, and I can understand how you are feeling. I made a push to get rid of many of the unused TH era techs before release, but there wasn't enough time, and most people don't get to the TH era anyways, so I relented. The TH era though is also different in that all of the new techs that end up staying will get stuff soon, when we do Multi-Maps.

In short, yes there are some empty techs, but we had a lot larger bugs to kill during the last development cycle.

 

[Talin2009]

I'm not offended, and I can understand how you are feeling. I made a push to get rid of many of the unused TH era techs before release, but there wasn't enough time, and most people don't get to the TH era anyways, so I relented. The TH era though is also different in that all of the new techs that end up staying will get stuff soon, when we do Multi-Maps.

In short, yes there are some empty techs, but we had a lot larger bugs to kill during the last development cycle.

tbh, i rarely make it into industrial in my games, it is usually either new major release i want to try out from start or i am far from other civs and game loses interest.

Actually just making them 1 beaker should solve problem without need to rework tech tree until some ideas for them emerge.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Aside from the future tech ones the rest are there for a reason and are slowly getting filled in. We use to have a lot more empty. Please be patient and eventually they will all get filled in with something.

We cannot add new stuff to them if the techs are not already made to add to.

 

[jmmendesp]

I'm not offended, and I can understand how you are feeling. I made a push to get rid of many of the unused TH era techs before release, but there wasn't enough time, and most people don't get to the TH era anyways, so I relented. The TH era though is also different in that all of the new techs that end up staying will get stuff soon, when we do Multi-Maps.

In short, yes there are some empty techs, but we had a lot larger bugs to kill during the last development cycle.

What happens when the 7000 and something turns number gets reached? The game ends and whoever has the most mastery points win? I'm assuming the TH era not being done is the reason for having this turn limit?

 

[Talin2009]

Aside from the future tech ones the rest are there for a reason and are slowly getting filled in. We use to have a lot more empty. Please be patient and eventually they will all get filled in with something.

We cannot add new stuff to them if the techs are not already made to add to.

That's why i suggested making them 1 beaker ... And at first place i was not addressing TH era techs but early ones.

p.s. playing GEM map atm, under limited religions and divine prophets all AIs still go after ALL religion founding techs first, thus falling behind in research.

 

[JosEPh_II]

...under limited religions and divine prophets all AIs still go after ALL religion founding techs first...

Ase you seeing the tech leader get them all? Or are they getting dispersed fairly well? Especially with Limited on. DP iirc is kind of weighted towards Spiritual leaders. Trying to gather some data.


JosEPh

 

[Talin2009]

Ase you seeing the tech leader get them all? Or are they getting dispersed fairly well? Especially with Limited on. DP iirc is kind of weighted towards Spiritual leaders. Trying to gather some data.


JosEPh

I am the tech leader speaking of other developed civs they seem to pursue and get them all. No technology brokering and 15-20 civs have researched ngaiism, shinto at same time (since they offer to trade it).

 

[JosEPh_II]

Yes,the AI keeps offering "other" religion founding techs that I have bypassed.

But since the religion is already founded I refuse. Of course I only play with 7-10 AI per game and the religions do get spread quite nicely with Multiple Religions turned On. Obviously I don't use Limited.

If you have No tech brokering On, how then are the AI able to offer it as a trade? Doesn't No tech brokering supposed to stop that kind of activity? Or is it it only stops it if you have Not 1st researched the tech yourself? Been ages since I used that Option so memory is a bit fuzzy.

JosEPh

 

[T C]

Interestingly in my current game, the AI doesn't seem to like founding religions. I am way behind in tech. I have met 6 other civs and at least 8 unknown are more than any I have met and myself. Only one of the AIs I have met has a religion, Druidism, which it founded. Yet I was able to found Tengrinism and I have only just seen Mesoptanianism and Shinto founded (I have just researched The Wheel myself).

 

[Talin2009]

Yes,the AI keeps offering "other" religion founding techs that I have bypassed.

But since the religion is already founded I refuse. Of course I only play with 7-10 AI per game and the religions do get spread quite nicely with Multiple Religions turned On. Obviously I don't use Limited.

If you have No tech brokering On, how then are the AI able to offer it as a trade? Doesn't No tech brokering supposed to stop that kind of activity? Or is it it only stops it if you have Not 1st researched the tech yourself? Been ages since I used that Option so memory is a bit fuzzy.

JosEPh

No tech brokering = you can only trade techs you researched yourself. Meaning they (almost) all spend time to research multiple religion founding techs.

 

[JosEPh_II]

No tech brokering = you can only trade techs you researched yourself. Meaning they (almost) all spend time to research multiple religion founding techs.

Which means they somehow need a way to know that If the religion has been already founded to bypass it and move on to those that have not been founded.

Which in turn makes me wonder if the iWeight is too high on the New founding techs? Apparently the upped "cost" for researching the tech is no deterrent, except for maybe the player.

JosEPh

 

[Koshling]

Which means they somehow need a way to know that If the religion has been already founded to bypass it and move on to those that have not been founded.

Which in turn makes me wonder if the iWeight is too high on the New founding techs? Apparently the upped "cost" for researching the tech is no deterrent, except for maybe the player.

JosEPh

They have no AIWeght AT ALL so far as I know (least I hope they don't!). If the AI is researching the relgion-founding tech for an already foudned religion its probably a bug, and as soon as someone posts a save game where an AI decides to do so I'l see about figuring it out.

 

[Talin2009]

Which means they somehow need a way to know that If the religion has been already founded to bypass it and move on to those that have not been founded.

Which in turn makes me wonder if the iWeight is too high on the New founding techs? Apparently the upped "cost" for researching the tech is no deterrent, except for maybe the player.

JosEPh

Even if religion is not founded yet, i don't see point in researching several of them when you can only found one.

Also what is the whole point in such activity (spending time to research several religion founding techs) if you don't have GP available to found it?

@Koshling - here's the savegame. [edit] They don't research for already founded religion - they research for unfounded but for EVERY religion possible out there.

 

[Daedwartin]

I think they should just stay. Reason they are empty now is that this mod isn't even close to finished. those techs will be filled when the team finally gets multiple maps working fully. Its because just about all of them later on have to do with the Cosmos side of the Caveman 2 Cosmos. I except them by at most v30 or v31 to have been fleshed out completely with content. they were put in way before needed so they didn't have to do the work of making them later.

 

[Talin2009]

I think they should just stay. Reason they are empty now is that this mod isn't even close to finished. those techs will be filled when the team finally gets multiple maps working fully. Its because just about all of them later on have to do with the Cosmos side of the Caveman 2 Cosmos. I except them by at most v30 or v31 to have been fleshed out completely with content. they were put in way before needed so they didn't have to do the work of making them later.

I think i am repeating my other suggestion 3rd time, i probably should have named topic that way: - for the time being, while they are not filled, why not make them 1 beaker?

 

[Koshling]

Even if religion is not founded yet, i don't see point in researching several of them when you can only found one.

Also what is the whole point in such activity (spending time to research several religion founding techs) if you don't have GP available to found it?

@Koshling - here's the savegame. [edit] They don't research for already founded religion - they research for unfounded but for EVERY religion possible out there.

Why can you only found one? Are we talking about some game opion here? If so the AI for that is Thunderbrd's responsibility for DP and CR. I thoguht we were talking about the AI researching already founded ones in he standard ruleset. I was anyway (to clarify the context of my posts)

 

[Koshling]

I think i am repeating my other suggestion 3rd time, i probably should have named topic that way: - for the time being, while they are not filled, why not make them 1 beaker?

If you're talking about piercing, scrping, etc. then right now they are techs I beeline FOR THERIE OWN BENEFITS. This is because they add a beaker to stone tools workshops, which is well worthwhile. If they were 1 beaker to research that benefit would eb hugely over-powered I agree that they are not exactly 'exciting' techs though currently)

 

[Thunderbrd]

Why can you only found one? Are we talking about some game opion here? If so the AI for that is Thunderbrd's responsibility for DP and CR. I thoguht we were talking about the AI researching already founded ones in he standard ruleset. I was anyway (to clarify the context of my posts)

The improvements made recently have yet to be included, but I'm not sure I understand the question otherwise... Seems to have more to do with the tech decisions path and I haven't taken much of a look at how they go about that where religions are concerned yet. I do mean to though... I feel leaders need to be more diverse about how they go about trying to obtain/spread religions and I'll eventually get around to addressing that.

 

[Talin2009]

If you're talking about piercing, scrping, etc. then right now they are techs I beeline FOR THERIE OWN BENEFITS. This is because they add a beaker to stone tools workshops, which is well worthwhile. If they were 1 beaker to research that benefit would eb hugely over-powered I agree that they are not exactly 'exciting' techs though currently)

No, i don't mind scraping, piercing etc. since they give benefits, small but benefit.

I am talking about Games, Board games, Karma, Ideograms, Pictograms, Resurrestion, Reincarnation (those 3 particular - karma, resurrestion and reincarnation - i have no idea how those could possibly be techs at all???? where in history did we have resurrection as tech? And how could be Karma related to techs? *shrugs*), Meritocracy, Colonialism, Scriptures, Calligraphy, Cosmology, some others that are TOTALLY empty, and they stay so for few months , there are also several techs that give nothing but +1 to Art Gallery. Minority Rights gives you one Crime, nothing else.