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Please STOP nerfing magic!!

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by Thunder_Gr, Dec 28, 2008.

  1. Thunder_Gr

    Thunder_Gr Emperor

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    As the patches are released, magic is being constantly nerfed... Crown of Brilliance from 80% to 60%, Maelstorm from 50% to 30%!!!
    So what's next? Fireballs from 4 to 3? In a while there will be no reason to play focusing on magic... It is already an issue that there are too few offensive spells in the game, nerfing the last of them is very sad IMO.
     
  2. BugReportage

    BugReportage Warlord

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    You could always change the values back if you don't like the changes. o_O
    But I'm sure a dev will pop by and give an explanation as to why. :p
     
  3. Kael

    Kael Deity

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    Now that features are locked expect lots of specific balance tweaks. Its much easier to do since we aren't swapping major features in and out. Also the scenarios really allow us to focus on specific settings since we remove the randomness of random maps, players, civs, etc.

    Some things will be reduced, some things will be increased. Some people will disagree with the changes either way. But the balance changes won't be limited to just the magic system, and we are very conservative balancers and personally I need lots of proof before I move anything. In the case of Crown of Brillance and Maelstrom, I think we had it.
     
  4. westamastaflash

    westamastaflash Lord Commander

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    Malestrom and Crown were game-breakers. For The Radiant Guard scenario, that's all you needed...
     
  5. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    How would you get Crown of Brillance (which has never been spell right in the game) in Radiant Guard?

    I'd still prefer the average damage be decreased instead of the maximum damage personally.


    I don't think that Crown of Brillance was nearly as powerful as Pillar of Fire. I think that eliminating Chalid's unit specific spell (or changing it to be unit specific for Brigit or Seraphim) would have been better.

    I still think that Destroy undead really needs to actually destroy undead units. Having a spell htat works against so few units deal a maximum of 50 damage makes it really weak imho. Since there aren't a lot of valid targets, I really think that his spell should loose the damage cap (even if the average damage isn't boosted at all) and thus be able to actually destroy undead like the name implies rather than just injure them.


    I really think that the recently reintroduced Guardian Vines need to once again be a Nature summon. I typically think that there are too many level 3 summons, but this one serves a very different purpose than most. I tend to think that Vitalize would be fine if moved to level 2, at least if it is given a Delay.

    I still think Aureales should be able to target Assassins/Shadows/etc in stacks of stronger units (when not in cities). This is very easy to do using a currently unused BtS mechanism and would make one of the most boring summons very interesting by making it an anti-assassin, which is very thematic for the Sun sphere.
     
  6. westamastaflash

    westamastaflash Lord Commander

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    I was speaking of Maelstrom.
     
  7. Chip56

    Chip56 King

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    I agree.

    Concerning maelstrom: That one was really strong, but I think 30 now is to less. Maybe 40%?
     
  8. odalrick

    odalrick Emperor

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    This is an excellent idea. Makes them primarily a bombardment tool. In fact, make it 2 and increase their collateral damage to compensate and they become city and stack breakers, rather than an all round killing spell.
     
  9. rusty217

    rusty217 Veil Fanatic

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    Good luck playing the Gifts of Kylorin scenario with that change...
     
  10. xalien

    xalien Prince

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    It's now really inferior to ritualists ring of flames. I mean ritualist is ready to go as soon as you build one and does more damage now, while adepts need to "brew" and require a later tech to become mages.
     
  11. Merddyn

    Merddyn Scholar of the Arcane

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    There AREN'T enough? Now, unless you don't count summons as offensive, if you do, then I totally agree with you. Otherwise...

    Anyway, I'd rather there were some more non-summon or offensive spells, especially at later levels. With like half the tier 3 spells being summons, as a... non-summoning player, it's rather annoying to find spells I like. Most of the time, I don't really even bother to make arch-mages (even though I play the Amurites and build a fair number of wizards.)
     
  12. MacGyverInSpace

    MacGyverInSpace Monarch

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    Maybe Metamagic promos could raise max spell damage on certain spells?
    Also, you could balance by counter or make the magic resistance promotions more accessible.
     
  13. zup

    zup Emperor

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    I agree, magic is too summoning focused. And I don't see a problem with magic actually killing enemies, as long as it gives the mage xp in the process. How about lower average damage but no damage cap? I believe an unprepared army should easy pickings for a bunch of magi. Magic resistance and/or anti-magic spells should be more available too.

    Don't bring up the 'AI does not understand it' issue. I have heard it all before.
     
  14. Mesix

    Mesix One of Porg

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    Maelstrom really was overpowered. I won three of the scenarios by having two or more mages with Maelstrom accompany my SOD. You don't need to pound down city defenses if the defenders are at 50% strength.
     
  15. Zechnophobe

    Zechnophobe Strategy Lich

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    Maelstrom was basically an archmage quality spell that you could mass. Crown is STILL really good, especially given that it's holy damage and not fire damage. Heck, I still use both as a primary means of military victory.
     
  16. Mesix

    Mesix One of Porg

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    Maelstrom is still a good spell at 30% max damage. It is not a one trick magician to win the game any more though. When the AI gets more advanced units, 30% damage is not enough to make them sitting ducks. It now requires a little diversity in strategy which is the aim of game balancing.

    Nice change.
     
  17. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    Wow, Kael actually listened to my advice on spells for once--at least to the part about Destroy Undead. Patch k increases the damage from 20 to 30 and eliminates the cap, making it the only lethal direct damage spell a normal arcane unit can cast. This makes 5 lethal spells total, but one of those can only be cast by Ars Moriendi, one by Auric Ascended, and the other 2 are world spells. Pyre Zombie's explosions can also be lethal, but that isn't exactly a spell.
    Hopefully Kael won't change his mind when he realizes how useful Life Magic now is against the Sheaim, as Pyre Zombies killed by the spell don't have a chance to explode. I however prefer to think of this as way of balancing the otherwise overpowered special ability of this UU.

    Now lets see if bringing up my other spell suggestions in just about every spell related thread for the next year pays off too. :p
     
  18. Chip56

    Chip56 King

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    Now I know what my mages will learn in my black tower try...
     
  19. Kael

    Kael Deity

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    Ive unleashed a monster!!! :eek:
     
  20. EmptyWolf

    EmptyWolf Priest of Winter

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    Congratulations Magister.
     

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