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Plot Capacity | Unit limit on Plot

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Mod Components' started by [VK], Jul 23, 2010.

  1. [VK]

    [VK] Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2010
    Messages:
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    So after installing and successfully compiling my first non-modded DLL, I started to try a little Mod with XML changes myself. Without the Tutorials from Kael, Duke176 and the other I wouldn't probably succeed.

    So here is my first SDK Modcomp:

    VKs Plot Capacity Modcomp



    It's more or less a One Unit per Plot System like in Civ5. I added a new XML Tag under iMoves, which says how much Percent of the Plot the Unit takes. When there wouldn't be room for the Unit which wants to move to the Plot it can't move on the Plot. For Example Siege Units take 50% of a Plot, while Archer take only 20%. So only two Siege Units can be on the same plot, while on the same Plot could stand 5 Archer or 2 Archer and one Siege Unit. Ships are not affected by this.

    It's easy to change the amount of Place the Unit takes by XML in the CIV4UnitInfos.xml:

    Code:
    			<iMinAreaSize>-1</iMinAreaSize>
    			<iMoves>1</iMoves>
    	--->		<iUnitPlotCost>20</iUnitPlotCost>
    			<bNoRevealMap>0</bNoRevealMap>
    I hope this little Mod is useful for someone, I could imagine that it could be useful for various Warfare Scenarios.










    Changelog:
    Spoiler :

    V1.3:
    -Terrain, Improvement and Feature Capacity changeable by XML

    V1.2:
    - The Capacity of the Cities is changeable by XML
    V1.1:
    - Units have a XML Tag, which says how much of a Plot they take
    - If the Plot is Full it's not possible to move there
     

    Attached Files:

  2. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

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    this is a very nice modcpmp,

    good job,

    although this kind of mod was made a while back, (patch 3.13 i think),

    but anyway - my main concern - how does the ai will use the limited space?
    i think, if this mod comp can be perfect, if maybe some mechanism will be made to make the ai treat kinds of units - like siege units will be placed behind attacking units, defending and such.

    i might use this in my mod - very nice work !
     
  3. Vrenir

    Vrenir King

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    Also, what happens with bottlenecks, and more importantly, cities? If a city tile already has it's capacity filled, can it still manufacture more units?
     
  4. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

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    yeah, i think cities should be able to hold up to 2-5 units (maybe make this adjustable to the user.
     
  5. Cybah

    Cybah Emperor

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    afaik cities can hold unlimited units.
     
  6. [VK]

    [VK] Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Yes they can produce more Units, which is a problem. In version 1.2 it is possible to change the capacity of the City. It can be higher, lower or unlimited. The Problem is that it still shows that it's possible to move in a city, if the unit hat a Movement of to or so, even if it's not possible. :(

    Because of this the unlimited could be the best solution, but it would be to hard to capture a city.
     

    Attached Files:

  7. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

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  8. [VK]

    [VK] Chieftain

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    Hi, that's pretty much the thing I wanted to do :undecide:

    Anyway, I wanted to learn to mod with the SDK so I will train for myself :)

    The change in this Version is that you can change the Capacity by XML in the Terrain, Improvement and Feature XML.
     

    Attached Files:

  9. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

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    yeah i can understand you,
    its a good thing to do it on your own.

    im happy you keep updating,

    so - have you gotten a chance to see how the ai functions with these restrictions?
     
  10. Thomas SG

    Thomas SG CCV-designer

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    Both mods won't work well with the AI.

    An example. Think of two ship stacks. Both will try to enter one plot but can't because it is not possible that all units enter this plot. In both mods the result may be that a stack of unprotected transport ships is on the one plot while a stack of battleships is on another plot.

    And what about teams? And friendly units? Will they count into the limit? Doesn't matter what is the answer. Both can be used as human exploit.
     
  11. avain

    avain (key)

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    Yes, this is why I'm reluctant to add sg like this to my mod, despite the fact that I really would want to.
    I guess I'll still add sg at a certain point, but have a higher limit - so basically I'd rule out those really huge stack (>10 units). I have hopes this does not cripple the AI too much.
     
  12. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

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    ai ai ai...thats a bummer huh, i would really wanna have a civ5 style game,

    but i guess the ai isnt built for it , civ was always about stacks of units siege cities, hope firaxis got all those loose ends and bringing us a new style of civ :)
     
  13. [VK]

    [VK] Chieftain

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    I have played a Duell against Shaka.

    During the war, he could take two unprotected Cities from me. Because he had no Iron, he had only Elephants, Catapults and Horse Archers. I realised that the Units sometimes just stopped to move, mostly in Jungle or Tundra-woods. The Catapults were bombarding my Units, while my Units bombarded the City. Sometimes the Archers attacked. It was like Trench Warfare. I realised that it's a really bad Idea to give Cities unlimited Capacity. It's nearly impossible to get them back. I realised too, that the best way, is to try to Stack the Units with, Forts and Generals. Because you only can stack like 1 Siege Unit to Bombard and 2 Defence Units, with Fort etc, you can have more Siege Units, while you don't need really more Defence units. It's easier to Bombard the City. But I never managed to take the Cities back, because without Capacity in the cities, ist just to hard. You need to much troops. With just 200 Capacity in Cities, it should be better, because it should be easier to take the city.
    Defence is with unlimited City-Capacity to easy. Everybody who comes to you will be Bombarded, and than Destroyed, because he is to slow...
     
  14. Cybah

    Cybah Emperor

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    collateral damage gets ridiculous with unit limits. civ4 wants to counter stack sizes by collateral damage. this works pretty well with enough siege units.

    also, I don't get it: why do you want to play a system like civ5? I can only speak for myself, but I don't think we can compare Civ5 to any Civ before. Also, I like SoDs. They demonstrate power and might and create fear in the eyes of my opponent. :p
     
  15. [VK]

    [VK] Chieftain

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    I think it's more like a interest to see how the new game will be.

    I personalty don't rally like stacks so much. They somehow takes away the tactical part of the game. It comes just to a "who produce more units".
     
  16. Sonereal

    Sonereal ♫We got the guillotine♫ Supporter

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    I suppose but I've been hard pressed to split a stack just because of that. If anything, a massive diverse stack will still trample over everything in its path. The main problem with Civ4 is that archery units are poor offensive units (this is solved with nearly any mod that allows for Attack Support and Archer Bombard) and siege weapons...well, suck at defensive work (solved with ranged bombard and attack support in mods).

    Which is why the tile limit isn't really fun for vanilla BTS.

    Compared to:
    Spoiler :



    There's something visibly pleasing of sending several dozen stacks of units into enemy territory and having them collide with enemy units and forming a makeshift frontline. Stacks just make the game soooo.....easy. That city on the two tile island is just as easy to take as that landlocked city surrounded by plains because in can land so many troops on a single tile that I'm surprised blackholes aren't popping up all over the map during a war.

    Besides, xUPT sounds like it would be fun to play in multiplayer as it takes more skill and thought instead of just lumping a ton of different units into a stack and sending it that way. That city in the picture? Took forever to take down but if I could've stacked all my units on a single tile, I would've been able to have taken half its defenses down in two turns. Gee, that's fun I suppose. I mean, certainly some players would enjoy that but I don't. Same reason why I don't enjoy the idea that if WW2 was a war in Civ4, D-Day would've taken place on only one beach and through sheer numbers, punched through the well-defended Germans with relatively little harm.
     
  17. Castor_Troy

    Castor_Troy Warlord

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    I put in my mod the old unitsize on tiles and i get the same effect as described here :
    Takeing cities takes forever, since you cant mass the stacks and ( i got a 10 tile limit affected by -2 per forest or hills ) you can bring around 2 siege units with 4 defensive and 2 mounted since otherwise if nations are on equal strengh he`ll bring lots more than me and destroy my siege/mounted units thus forceing me to be defensive even on offensive it creates a turtle effect.
    Also is that screenshot for real ? The AI brought so many units into into stacks or is it WB? If its real what AI is it, cause i only seen the Mongols do that in my mod ?
     
  18. NotSoGood

    NotSoGood Emperor

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    I have also added this option into my mod, and I must say I like it. :D Although, I incorporated it little differently (max units per tile limit is absolute, nothing can change it). The wars have been fun. I got this screenshot when France declared war on me:
    Spoiler :
    All those french units were military units. I had to fight hard to push through their lines and attack Tours, even though the AI didn't have any idea how to use them. I agree completely with Sonereal that this wouldn't be fun with vanilla because everything else isn't designed for that. Like I have ranged bombard in my mod. I quess 4 units per tile is too few, mayby 5 would be better.
     
  19. Dr.NEO

    Dr.NEO Chieftain

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    hey !cool mod.i like idea one unit per tile.
    i have one problem with this mod after 35-40 turns when i click next turn, new turn cant start, its like the game is frozen.i can go to menu, exit the game, only new turn wont start?
    can u tell me what could be the problem?
    BTS 3.19
     
  20. DasGuntLord01

    DasGuntLord01 Chieftain

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    So, have you fixed the mod so that cities also conform to the plot restrictions?
     

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