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Pls rework religious pressure

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by BiteInTheMark, Aug 28, 2016.

  1. BiteInTheMark

    BiteInTheMark Emperor

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    I dont need any information, why this can happen, i know it, but I simply want to say, this is bullsh***.

    Can you pls rework the religious pressure system? The amount of religious pressure from a bit earlier spawned religion or the religion with "ritual" is simply silly.
    Or atleast nerf "ritual" as a belief?
    50% extra range and 100% extra pressure to CS is so hard to counter.
    I mean, in a pangäa or big continent world, cities with advanced roads can be influenced by over 50 tiles (12 units movement of a explorer that increase with road and railroads lead to a 54 tiles range if there is an technological improved road and "ritual".)

    The next ortodox Cities (2) are 12 and 13 tiles away, in the same distance are 9 judäimn cities but the pressure is only 100% higher...
     
  2. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    Ritual is probably slightly overtuned, but your picture really does nothing to show that :D.
     
  3. BiteInTheMark

    BiteInTheMark Emperor

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    Before the third orthodox city is in the same range, this cs is surrounded by 12 judaismn cities and judaismn have only 14 and orthodox 7..... i wouldnt call this balanced.
     
  4. Enrico Swagolo

    Enrico Swagolo Deity

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    Well, they DID take something that merely boosts your pressure instead of something that grants you thousands of gold (Tithe) or other beliefs.

    Just take Tithe, declare war which nullifies any pressure of the opponent you receive (not his religion, just his cities pressure), buy units with it and pound your enemy into oblivion. Use Inquisitors afterwards to clean up, or don't if Spain, but in this case the belief doesn't work against you at all anyway...
     
  5. BiteInTheMark

    BiteInTheMark Emperor

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    First, it isnt me that gets under pressure hard, its a city state.
    DOW someone dont help other civilizations or CS to get not overrun by a other religions.

    And the new range pressure calculation system make it possible that cities in the corner of a continent can get overrun by a religion, even a lot of cities with other religion surround it.
    If i remember correct the religios pressure not even go down at range, so a city 20/30/40 hexes away can influence my city at the same scale as my much closer cities. That is silly.
     
  6. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    You only have 3 cities that are actually in range to pressure that city, they have 1. I don't really see the problem here at all.
     
  7. hokath

    hokath King

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    Idd. Maybe OP doesn't know about this, but religious pressure no longer works like a "radio signal", and must travel along roads, rivers and coasts. So idd a city positioned like Cape Town is fairly immune to passive conversion.
     
  8. BiteInTheMark

    BiteInTheMark Emperor

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    I know how religious pressure works. In my opinion, the new system is annoying, the pressure range of cities with increasing technology (roads, railroads) is way too big.

    If you can travel 3 units on roads for one movement point, cities can influece other cities 36 hex tiles away, and with full power cause the pressure reduction by distance is also removed. This means, there can be 6 other cities between these 2 cities and it gets influeced, even the 6 cities between them have other religion.

    And "ritual" is hilarous, 50% more range means a city state on the border of the religion receive +50-100% more religious pressure (or even more) and this is multiplied by 2, leading to 300-400% religious pressure to city states. Its impossible to fight that pressure with missionaries. The city state Almaty (top left in the picture) was converted by me with a prophet, 6 turns later it had its old religion back. that make no sense.

    If gazebo want to stay with the new system, it should tuned down a bit to 10 tiles instead of 12 and ritual down to 25% further away and 50% more pressure to city states, or any religion with "ritual" is impossible to be beaten.
     
  9. Horvath Broncos

    Horvath Broncos Warlord

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    This simply is not true. In my ongoing game Spain had ritual on the same continent as me and I pushed his religion back to just his 7 cities and few others near his cities. He had already conveted all mongolian, zulu, venetian and russian cities in our continent before I started my missionary spam. I had that reformation belief where missionaries remove other religion followers in cities. That to me is the key fighting ritual.

    And game before that Maya had ritual and had already converted all Indian cities and I still managed to push his religion back with prophets.

    No offence but I think this is one of those threads where people want some mechanics changed just because it is too hard for them but in reality there is nothing to be fixed.
     
  10. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    Ritual is not impossible to deal with, that's true. But it is clearly overtuned.

    It is A LOT better than Scripture for example.

    And yes I'm aware that Scripture by itself is terrible, and probably needs a buff, but Ritual definitely needs a nerf as well.
     
  11. Galaphile0125

    Galaphile0125 Duke

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    With Ritual on my own religion as India I've gotten cities to have over 1000 pressure though that is with extra trade routes. Though I see religions with ritual with no extra mods that easily get up to between 400 and 600 pressure and overtake the whole Earth. That is a little OP in my own opinion.
     
  12. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    Yeah, definitely a bit overtuned.
     
  13. Enginseer

    Enginseer Salientia of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Honestly the triple pressure from trade routes is its own belief. You can remove the other property of Ritual and the triple pressure would still be powerful.
     
  14. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    Maybe wouldn't go that far, I mean the belief wasn't exactly being picked before it got buffed recently. And I do think spreading-beliefs should be an acceptable alternative to the yield-based ones.
    But for that to feel fair, Ritual needs to be brought down a bit and scripture brought up to match it.
     
  15. matlajs

    matlajs King

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    well im experiencing it in my curent game, having koreans with Ritual. And me as Venice with Tithe, its little bit annoying. But on the other hand, still it may be profitable. From pagodas im getting + gold yields which im missing to have full +20 cap on tithe. and its still viable pick science bonus on missionaries for spreading into other religions. But i agree it expanding like blackdeath. Also with Indians.
     

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