Poison

Hydromancerx

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I thought I made a topic for this already but I guess not.

Poison has been a part of C2C for awhile now. It has a Poison Crafting tech, Poison Crafter's Hut, resource vicinity buildings and even subdued animals that can make a poison building. The Poison Crafter's Hut makes a special promotion called "Poison Tips" We use to have a promotion for each kind of poison but it became redundant.

On of the biggest complains is that getting the Poison Crafter's Hut is hard. And thus you cannot unlock the promotion or the Ambusher unit either. This thread is to brainstorm on new ideas, now that it has been tested for awhile and things have changed since I first made them. This is what I would like to chnage ...

Poison Sources

Subdued Animals
- Poison Dart Frog = Dart Frog
- Snake Pit = Various Venomous Snakes (Corba, Viper, Puff Adder, etc)
- Myth of the Ray = Sting Rays
- Myth of the Jellyfish = Jellyfish
- Myth of the Spider = Spiders

Resource Vicinity
- Belladonna = Wine
- Curare = Prime Timber
- Death Cap Mushroom = Mushrooms

As you can see these are less rare than before. However some would need to be added to the mod such as the Dart Frog and Mushroom resource. Alternatively we could have a Curare or Belladonna resource. However graphics are not made for that as far as I know.

If you have other ideas for types of poisons let me know.
 
I don't mind that poisons is a wee bit difficult to acquire. Have not yet noticed any problems with getting Poison Tips for my units as long as I've managed to secure some Marsh land. Now it seems even easier as Viper has been re-added. Are Cobras and Vipers too abundant now, considering that I in my current game have several extras of each?

Removing Dye as prerequisite for the other poison buildings is probably a good idea though it will make getting Poison really simple.

Cheers
 
If I had a choice I'd keep poisons semi-rare. Only a few groups in history were able to use poison militarily. I mean sure assassins get it....but can any one imagine medieval england or france equiping thier entire military with poison? There isn't enough snakes in the world lol! I'd say if more then 1/4 of the civs get poison then it losses is speciality edge and becomes something you'd need to keep up.
Anyways that's jsut a thought, I really hope I get poison in my next restart tho :D
 
Well, I see a few ways, possibly.

First off reduce the chance to subdue Snake type (and Dart Frogs), or reduce their spawn rate, to make the poison from those slightly less common. I'm seeing lots and lots of snakes in Jungle/Marsh lands. At least I've so far met 46 Cobras, 44 Ball Pythons and 25 Vipers. #11, #12 and #21 in most kills for me, and the Viper is with less than half the time played with them in the game (SVN update).

Remove getting Poisons as a resource from Poison Crafter's Hut. The building on it's own not being enough to get enough poisons to equip units with. Ambushers should in my opinion not require Poison Resource to train. What it could require though are Civics. Some Civics would frown upon using Poisons and thus when in those Civics either add a penalty to happy/health from the Poison Craft building, or just have certain Civics allow building of it and requireing to be in them to have the Craft's Hut active.

Then add Poison Crafter's Hut as a building requirement to build the Snake Pits via a Snake or Frog (like Carnival is required to build a bunch of enclosures). Basically needing to have a working Poison Craft before getting the Snake and Frog Pits.

And finally adding an extra building that requires either (Belladonna, Curare, Death Cap Mushrooms, Poison Dart Frog, OR Snake Pit) AND Poison Crafter's Hut to build. That building would then be what gives the Poison resource and Poison Tips to units built there.

Just my suggestions.

In The Pedia it also states that Poisons are used for arrows and darts for the purpose of hunting. Doesn't that then mean that only Recon and Hunter Type units (and Hidden Nationality units) might have the poison tips? Possibly a minor version for Archers too, though they seldom hunt, they defend more.

Cheers
 
Playing on gigantic Terra map I have a surplus of snakes, despite having a large number of cities.

Reduce the snakes and make other building/animal/resource dependent promotions, so there's some balance but with different promotions across the civs dependent upon access to resources/animals.

For example Roman catapults would often launch a beehive into an enemy encampment (beehive catapult/trebuchet promotion could require one of the buildings that produces flowers + an apiary for example, if you have those buildings you can build something that gives your siege units the "beehive" promotion giving some bonus to those siege units), and Egyptians would do similar with a jar of scorpions (could be a subdued scorpion building a scorpion building in the city, or access via terrain/resource types in city vicinity). Reduce the snakes and give different promotions in other terrains with other resources, it is not essential for every civ to have the same bonuses and promotions and not everyone needs access to poison, as long as those in the areas that won't have poison tips can get something else instead, maybe with a benefit to a different type of unit, that is great and makes for good diversity. Don't give every civ in every location access to poison tips - make it so that your starting location, terrain, and nearby animals can count for something and make some unique stuff, rather than ensuring everyone gets the same thing.
 
Playing on gigantic Terra map I have a surplus of snakes, despite having a large number of cities.

Reduce the snakes and make other building/animal/resource dependent promotions, so there's some balance but with different promotions across the civs dependent upon access to resources/animals.

For example Roman catapults would often launch a beehive into an enemy encampment (beehive catapult/trebuchet promotion could require one of the buildings that produces flowers + an apiary for example), and Egyptians would do similar with a jar of scorpions (could be a subdued animal building a scorpion building in the city, or access via terrain/resource types in city vicinity). Reduce the snakes and give different promotions in other terrains with other resources, it is not essential for every civ to have the same bonuses and promotions and not everyone needs access to poison, as long as those in the areas that won't have poison tips can get something else instead, maybe with a benefit to a different type of unit, that is great and makes for good diversity.


you know, even if all that was Compelte and utter bullshvt , It would still be the coolest thing ever to add. DO IT NOW>
 
you know, even if all that was Compelte and utter bullshvt , It would still be the coolest thing ever to add. DO IT NOW>

The beauty of it is that I'm not actually making it up, beehives have long been used as an offensive weapon - lob it into an enemy encampment and scarper for a bit, then make your offensive move whilst they are are all stung up and panicked/demoralised!

Edit to add: Beehive promotion to siege weapons when you use a siege weapon with that promotion should reduce defense bonuses of the units you are attacking for the next turn after bombardment, and/or reduce their movement speed, and/or make them unable to attack on their next turn.
 
Unable to attack is OP, that'd be way to easy to build a seige machine that completely stops any army lol. Stack of 20 trebs STOP HAMMER TIME. :)
although the beehive thing may be tough consdier EVERYONE can make the apiary very easyily and early on.
 
Unable to attack is OP, that'd be way to easy to build a seige machine that completely stops any army lol. Stack of 20 trebs STOP HAMMER TIME. :)
although the beehive thing may be tough consdier EVERYONE can make the apiary very easyily and early on.

Yes I agree not being able to attack would be a bad move and a huge disadvantage to anyone on the receiving end of such an attack - I was just throwing out random ideas.

I think it's a problem with the apiary as everyone can build it, which is why I suggested apiary + a city vicinity resource type thing that involves flowers, which would limit it a bit to civs with flower type resources - but the issue is that bees are kind of universal, so it would be hard to limit it it certain areas.

I think that's the issue here, make sure that poison isn't universal and that civs have other opportunities to get 'unique' promotions for their troops based on local flora and fauna and terrain, I am against having every civ turn out the same, I don't want every civ to turn out the same - some should have poison tips promotions, some should have beehive bomb promotions, some should have scorpion jar promotions and I'm sure there's loads of other stuff out there that could provide inspiration.

The last thing I want is for every civ to end up with the same advantages and disadvantages, the same buildings, the same promotions, and you are right apiary is a universal building, I don't know if anyone would want to see it restricted to certain cities on the basis of map resources in the city vicinity.
 
Yes special wonders for unque promotions :)
Master Bee keeper, Scorpion Colector, Snake Handler....and of course Alice Cooper
 
Yes special wonders for unque promotions :)
Master Bee keeper, Scorpion Colector, Snake Handler....and of course Alice Cooper

Lol Alice Cooper could very well fit in my 'Hippiepunk' sketch in 'alternative timelines' thread^^

@Epona - I am also thinking that it's a bit easy to have poison now -- that is if you play on a nearly empty gigantic map, like you (and many others) do. But what if there are 42 civs on that gigantic map?
I am lucky to even catch 2 snakes for to get snake charmer and snake poison in a whole game then...
 
Heh, that's why the alternate ways to get to Poison are reduced in difficulty to get to.

Cheers
 
Lol Alice Cooper could very well fit in my 'Hippiepunk' sketch in 'alternative timelines' thread^^

@Epona - I am also thinking that it's a bit easy to have poison now -- that is if you play on a nearly empty gigantic map, like you (and many others) do. But what if there are 42 civs on that gigantic map?
I am lucky to even catch 2 snakes for to get snake charmer and snake poison in a whole game then...

And that is where alternatives based on wonders, buildings that require city vicinity resources etc. come in - rather than concentrating on making sure everyone is able to get poison tips, make it so that there are plenty of varied alternatives some of which could be more important on a crowded map with little hunting opportunity. Last thing I want is for every Civ to end up the same.
 
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