Police mod v1.0 for BTS 3.13

OrionVeteran

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Police mod component 1.03 for BTS 3.13

Download here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/./downloads.php?do=file&id=8149

Changes for v1.03

1. Added the Ice Breaker Unit
2. Download is restored

Changes for v1.02

1. Added the Minuteman unit! Minuteman Atributes are:
2. Strength is 6
3. First Strike Chance
4. +25% City Defense
5. Prerequisit Rifling
6. Cost 40 (Hammers 80 - Cheap unit)
7. Upgrades to Police

Changes for v1.01

1. Police strength reduced to 8
2. Cost to produce Police unit reduced to 40 (80 Hammers - Cheap unit)
3. Prerequisit tech for discovery is now Industrialism, also added Constitution. (If you police the public, you need to be able to construct jails to put the bad guys in).
4. Police units can only defend, they can’t attack.
5. Police can help thwart spies.

-------------

We have jails, why not add police? This very simple mod adds a new Police unit to Civ4.

Here are the original attributes for v1.00:

1. Strength: 14
2. Movement: 1
3. Cost: 80 (160 hammers)
4. Prerequisit techs: Communism and Rifling
5. Special Abilities: +25% vs. Gunpowder units and +50% City Defense
6. Strategy: Police provide city protection and they decrease city unrest.

The special ability to "decrease city unrest" has not been added yet, as I need help with the python code. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Once the python code is complete, I will add the police mod component into the Orions Challenge mod composition.

The mod is fully playable, as it is now. Have fun.

Orion Veteran :cool:
 

Ninja2

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I think they are a little overpowered, perhaps? But otherwise, I think the unit as a concept is a good idea! :)
 

frekk

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I don't know about strength 14 either. Police shouldn't have the strength to resist military attackers. I would be thinking more of a really, really, really cheap unit that could be produced rapidly for those civics that allow happiness by military units (eg Police State etc).

Gunpowder and communism ... hmmm ... the first modern police force were the Peelers in 1829, and they didn't have guns. Communism is not really an ideal tech either, since the emergence of police was not a response to political agitation or revolutionaries, and was explicitly civilian so as not to invoke fears of the new forces being used to suppress dissent. It mostly had to do with increased population density brought on by the industrial revolution; so I would say industrialism would be a good prereq.
 

OrionVeteran

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I don't know about strength 14 either. Police shouldn't have the strength to resist military attackers. I would be thinking more of a really, really, really cheap unit that could be produced rapidly for those civics that allow happiness by military units (eg Police State etc).

Gunpowder and communism ... hmmm ... the first modern police force were the Peelers in 1829, and they didn't have guns. Communism is not really an ideal tech either, since the emergence of police was not a response to political agitation or revolutionaries, and was explicitly civilian so as not to invoke fears of the new forces being used to suppress dissent. It mostly had to do with increased population density brought on by the industrial revolution; so I would say industrialism would be a good prereq.

Are you sure industrialism is the best prerequisit tech location for police? In the words of the game show: Is that your final answer? :dunno:

How strong would you like the unit to be?

Sincerely,

Orion Veteran :cool:
 

frekk

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I think it should be weak, very weak. And very cheap. Considering the first police forces had only clubs ... probably it should be about strength 6 or 7, at a very minimal cost (say, 60). A unit that has no real use in war or combat, but it can be easily built in newly settled towns or low-production cities due to the cheap cost, to generate happiness and perhaps delay attackers a little (as cannon fodder). In a tight spot you could always pop out a police unit in 1 round just to have one more body in the city if under immediate danger of attack.

Industrialism ... I don't know. Maybe communism isn't a bad prereq, but police were established when Marx was only a child.
 

OrionVeteran

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I think it should be weak, very weak. And very cheap. Considering the first police forces had only clubs ... probably it should be about strength 6 or 7, at a very minimal cost (say, 60).

Industrialism ... I don't know. Maybe communism isn't a bad prereq, but police were established when Marx was only a child.

Compare with other units in about the same time frame:

.....................Strength..Hammers..................Cost
Musketman............9.......160..........................80
Grenader..............12.......200.........................45
Police..................14.......160.........................80
Rifleman...............14.......220.........................45
Cavalry................15.......240.........................50
Machine gune.......18.......250........................160
Sam Infantry........18.......300........................150
Infantry...............20.......280........................140
Navy Seal............24.......320........................160
Marine.................24.......320........................160

Both the policeman and the musketman are the cheapest units you can get in the this time farame. ...And for the cost of a cheap musketman you get a much stronger unit. Remember the policeman provides +50% City defense. After doing this analysis, I think the Policeman is a real bargan.

History shows it took continued internal and external strife brought about by the Industrial Revolution, the revolt in America, and war on the European continent to show the need for an organized police force. The Metropolitan Police Act of 1829, introduced by Sir Robert Peel, established the guidelines and structure of the first “true” uniformed police department, the London Metropolitan Police.

Based upon this evidence, perhaps I should make the prerequisite tech industrialism.

V/R,

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frekk

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Well ... with an inherent city defense bonus, 6 might be too strong. Maybe it should be more like 4. Riot police should not be able to really do any damage to attacking units of rifleman strength and beyond, otherwise nobody will defend their cities with military units anymore. It would still be very very useful to have a cheap unit for certain purposes in the industrial and modern era though.

A few things I can think of would make it even more useful. One thing is to reduce its maintenance cost to less than a normal military unit, with this in unitinfos:

<bMilitarySupport>0</bMilitarySupport>

So then, you've got a military unit that generates MilitaryHappiness, but costs less to support than a regular military unit. So it's an obvious choice for quelling unhappiness in big cities that don't actually need strong defence units to protect from foreign aggressors, but just need units that will keep unhappiness in check. Especially for police states it is important to have something like this because they don't have alot of money for support usually.

A couple of other flags I would consider:

<bCounterSpy>1</bCounterSpy>

I like that idea but then spies might be useless altogether. That might make the police a little too useful.

I'm not sure what this does, but if it does what it sounds like it does, it's probably another good flag for the police:

<bOnlyDefensive>1</bOnlyDefensive>

I'm planning on adding this unit to my personal mod, it looks great and I have often wished for some sort of unit to station in my cities just for reducing unhappiness. This really fits the bill and looks very good.
 

Xenomorph

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I put a unit similar to this into my mod to counter the Guerilla unit. I set the requirements as a jail in the city and the tech Democracy. I put the cost at 140, gave it 14 strength, a +10% to city defense, the ability to see Guerillas and help catch spies, and a +100% against Guerillas.

Where are those costs? I'm looking at the CIV4UnitInfos.xml and the cost for a marine is 160, a musketman at 100.
 

DrJambo

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How about having a Militia unit for the earlier game. This would eventually upgrade to the later Police unit come the 20th century, say. Both would be cheap, but relatively ineffectual combat-wise.

I would see them as cheap alternatives for new cities which often struggle to build their first military unit. This is particularly noticeable towards the latter half of the game where building that first rifleman or infantry unit can be a painstaking process for a newly conquered or created city.
 

OrionVeteran

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Police changes for next version:

1. Strength: 8
Rational: I agree: Police should not be too powerful against military conquest. They should be more focused on peace keeping (happiness).
2. Movement: 1
3. Cost: 40
4. Hammers: 80
Rational: I agree. There is a need for a cheap starting unit.
5. Prerequisit techs: Industrialism, Constitution and Rifling (Thought about Fascism, but decided against it.)
6. Special Abilities: +25% vs. Gunpowder units and +50% City Defense
7. Strategy: Police provide city protection and they decrease city unrest.

<bCounterSpy>1</bCounterSpy>
Rational: I agree, police should be able to catch spies.

<bMilitarySupport>0</bMilitarySupport>
<bMilitaryProduction>0</bMilitaryProduction>
Rational: I agree, police are separate from the military and should be focused on protecting and searving the people in a city, not military campaigns.

<bOnlyDefensive>0</bOnlyDefensive>
Rational: I disagree. Police can have an attacking roll. Think SWAT team. Yet Police attacks will not be nearly as strong as their +50% city defense capability. The machine gun is an example of a defensive only unit, that cannot attack.

I still need someone to code the decrease for city unrest. Any volunteers?

V/R

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OrionVeteran

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How about having a Militia unit for the earlier game. This would eventually upgrade to the later Police unit come the 20th century, say.

Militia upgrade to police makes sense. If you can provide me with the skins for the early Militia unit, I will add it. Again it's primary focus should be law enforcement and keeping the peace.

V/R,

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frekk

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5. Prerequisit techs: Industrialism, Constitution and Rifling (Thought about Fascism, but decided against it.)

Yeah, fascism would historically be inaccurate. Police, as originally conceived, were not agents of repression. They were an alternative to using the military to deal with disturbances in a heavy-handed fashion; the formation of modern police forces was actually a move away from excesses of the state.

<bOnlyDefensive>0</bOnlyDefensive>
Rational: I disagree. Police can have an attacking roll. Think SWAT team.

I've never heard of a SWAT team attacking a military unit. They take out things like a half dozen gunmen holding hostages, maybe, but that's just not the same as assaulting the 3rd Infantry Brigade or whatever.
 

OrionVeteran

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I've never heard of a SWAT team attacking a military unit. They take out things like a half dozen gunmen holding hostages, maybe, but that's just not the same as assaulting the 3rd Infantry Brigade or whatever.

Do you believe the police should have a purely defensive roll, without the ability to attack anything?

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frekk

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No, because the kind of assaults police might initiate are on a very small scale - civ is very "macro". The units that move around are at least, I imagine, brigade size if not divisions or even army groups. I can see police defending a city under military threat as part of civil defence forces, but I can't see them setting out to attack an entire military unit or even a guerrilla encampment. That's the work of infantry.
 

DrJambo

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I agree that a police unit should not be an offensive unit in terms of military conquest. That's the role of riflemen, cavalry and infantry. Police deal with urban disturbances, social unrest, criminals, etc. As a result, I don't think they should have a +25% vs gunpowder units or much in the way of city defence. If another civ's military is knocking on the door of one of your cities, you'd need military presence not police to repel them.

I see them as a cheap unit to fulfill the role of having a unit present for happiness purposes, and potentially some benefit towards war weariness if that's even possible to do.
 

Ninja2

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I agree with frekk and Jambo. In fact, I would suggest giving the unit a penalty against gunpowder units, or make it a non-gunpowder unit in stead. Police units should be largely irrelevant in a war situation.
 

mamba

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Police deal with urban disturbances, social unrest, criminals, etc. As a result, I don't think they should have a +25% vs gunpowder units or much in the way of city defence.

I actually would give them a -25% vs gunpowder and a base str of 10 or so. City defense of +50% is way overpowered too, in reality they would have no bonus, but since I gave them -25% vs. gunpowder, giving them +25% city defense might be ok.
 

OrionVeteran

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I actually would give them a -25% vs gunpowder and a base str of 10 or so. City defense of +50% is way overpowered too, in reality they would have no bonus, but since I gave them -25% vs. gunpowder, giving them +25% city defense might be ok.

Police are professional law enforcement officers and they receive specialized marksmanship training that makes them a cut above everyone else. :sniper: Police see a lot of violence every day and they have to be the best at what they do, as they protect and serve their respective communities and cities. Therefore, IMO, I'm not inclined to lower the 25% effectiveness advantage the police have over other gunpowder units.

The military also receives highly specialized training, only their toys are far more powerful. Hence, I lowered the strength value for the police from 14 down to only 8, nearly half. That makes the police unit the weakest unit of the age. Compare with the archer, which also has +50% city defense, +25% hill defense and has half the strength (3) of a swordsman or horse archer. Military units like the infantry or marines should be able to take out a police unit without too much effort. Note: The strength of a marine is 3 times that of the police. But, police should not be just cannon fodder, as they do have the capability of mounting a good fight under pressure. At such times heroes can emerge. :salute:

Doesn't that make you want to go out and play a game just to try it out? :thumbsup:

Very Respectfully,

Orion Veteran :cool:
 
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