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Police Shoot Tool-wielding Assailant, Outrage Erupts

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Azash, Jan 24, 2012.

  1. Azash

    Azash La Sombra

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    Moderator Action: Removed video containing inappropriate language.
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

    Personally, I don't see the big deal. He had previously smashed windows on the Carl's Jr. building, ignored commands and resisted the (badly aimed) taser. There are complaints because the policemen fired ten shots into the man, but considering that after the first officer shot his five he was still standing, it's hardly excessive.
     
  2. Bugfatty300

    Bugfatty300 Buddha Squirrel

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    Just goes to show that tasers aren't always infallible alternatives to firearms.
     
  3. Rashiminos

    Rashiminos Fool Prophet

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    I'm not sure what that guy was expecting to happen when he started swinging.
     
  4. Silurian

    Silurian Deity

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    Video is behind ID wall.

    If he is destroying property it is no justification to kill him.
     
  5. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Deity

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    post before the video got deleted (due to profanity).

    I won't say it is excessive force. I think it's too much to ask cops to stop firing after 2 or 3 shots. Unless you are in that kind of tense situation, you never know. The officer has to protect himself from bodily harm. I say keep shooting until the guy is down on the ground. 9mm rounds aren't very big, and they don't have dropping power. I don't know if this was a 9mm, but it seems like they may be.
     
  6. Bugfatty300

    Bugfatty300 Buddha Squirrel

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    Correct but destroying someone's skull (or the immediate threat to do so) is a completely different matter. That is what the video shows if you aren't able to see it.
     
  7. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Deity

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    yeah the guy isn't too happy about being shot in the face with a stun gun. So he turned towards the cop nearest the building, and he did raise the axe a little. I'm not sure if would have swung or not, but the cops can't take that chance.

    I made a comment saying it was justified on the youtube boards (I know I shouldn't post on such things), and I got flamed pretty hard. Everyone seems to think the cops should have shot him in the leg or something. Police are not trained for leg shots. This isn't some Hollywood movie. All the people on those boards are saying it's murder. I guess I don't think like other people. Oh well.
     
  8. Mr. Dictator

    Mr. Dictator A Chain-Smoking Fox

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    Blaming that many shots on tense nerves works just as well to justify slinging an axe to a cop's head when he tries to taser you.
     
  9. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Deity

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    True, but when you break the law, you have to expect to follow the officer's instructions. If you don't, bad things will happen.

    These shootings are nothing compared to what happened in Vegas the past few years. A few guys who weren't even criminals (and one small time dope dealer) were shot and killed for no good reason. I suggest looking up the Las Vegas Metro cases. This by comparison, is nothing.
     
  10. Murky

    Murky Deity

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    Either lunacy or idiocy to go after cops like that.
     
  11. emzie

    emzie wicked witch of the North

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    Seeing as the cops attempted less-than-lethal before shooting him, I can't blame them. Looks like an awful situation all around.

    The guys filming this are just bad people.
     
  12. Boundless

    Boundless Deity

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    Why didn't they shoot his legs or arms? He didn't need to be killed.
     
  13. emzie

    emzie wicked witch of the North

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    You don't shoot to wound. Wounded people can still kill you. If a situation has escalated to the point lethal force is justified (and raising a pickax to a striking position with another officer in range of a swing is justified lethal force) you fire your weapon to kill or incapacitate. Once the target is no longer a threat (is disarmed or is bleeding to death in a fast food parking lot) you call for an ambulance and do everything you can to save his life.

    Put shorter: a shot to his leg still leaves the possibility that your fellow cop takes a pickax to the head.

    As an aside, a shot to the leg is by no means safe. If we're talking one bullet, I'd rather be shot in my chest than my thigh.
     
  14. classical_hero

    classical_hero In whom I trust

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    Also if you get shot in the wrong part of your leg, you can die much quicker, since the biggest artery is just inside the thigh.
     
  15. Bugfatty300

    Bugfatty300 Buddha Squirrel

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    1. Bullets are only immediately incapacitating when they hit vital organs. Perforating legs and arms will not cut it, especially when the threat is right on top of you.

    2. Legs and arms, especially when they are moving, are much more difficult to hit. Not a good target to go for when you only have a second to react.

    Right. He needed to be stopped. Unfortunately, that meant the use of lethal force.
     
  16. PacoDeth

    PacoDeth Chieftain

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    Looks to me like the police followed procedure quite well. You don't approve of this form of protocol, then move to a different country. But good luck finding a country that's "safer" for a tool/weapon wielding criminal to rear up like he's going to attack within striking range of an officer and not be put down.

    Trying to disable by leg or arm is pure Hollywood and most likely wouldn't work in this situation. Had another half second gone by and the attacker had decided to swing out at the officer, a shot to the arm or leg wouldn't have prevented this whatsoever. And as stated, even in close proximity, shooting a moving arm or leg is much harder than you would think to get a center shot and not a graze or even a miss.
     
  17. Azash

    Azash La Sombra

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    Agreed. He ignored orders to drop the tool, resisted a taser, and hefted his weapon to strike at the other officer. At that point it was all over.

    As for the weapon use, people are dumb. Police are forbidden from shooting to maim, nevermind that almost any shot carries a risk of being fatal. Weapons are fired to kill. Even if they were allowed to, that is not the kind of situation where you have a good chance to actually hit a leg.

    EDIT: Looks like I got beaten to it.
     
  18. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    Doesn't look like he actually had raised the crowbar. He appeared to have intention to, but if it was here then the outrage would be massive (cops are not very protected in this country).

    Imo the person probably was an idiot, but that does not justify shooting him 7 times.
     
  19. Azash

    Azash La Sombra

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    Watch closer, you can see that he's got the weapon ready and takes 'hops' at the police as if getting ready to swing. You don't have to make an overhead swing with those; they're made of cast iron. One hit is serious damage or instant death.
     
  20. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    Yeah i saw that, he is an idiot like i said, but the cops are idiots too for staying so close to him. Did they hope they would persuade him to drop his weapon if they came within hitting range of it? :crazyeye:
     

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