Polish Civilization

[Jimcat]

I saw a few posts here with ideas for a Polish civilization. This has always been an area of interest for me, since my own ancestry is largely Polish and Lithuanian (though I am a third-generation American by birth).

In Civ2, I created a Polish civilization to replace the Spanish. Even edited the Earth map to give them their historical starting location at Warszawa.

Possible Polish leaders could be Casimir, Jan Sobieski, or Tadeusz Kosciuszko. Much as I admire Lech Walesa, I don't think he has had as much impact on Poland as the leaders from the Middle Ages/ early modern times when the nation was a major European power. And if we're looking for modern Polish leaders, let's not forget Karol "His Holiness" Wojtyla.

In Civ3 terms, my first instinct was that the Polish would be Industrious and Religious. Certainly most of the Polish-Americans I know exhibit those qualities.

I definitely think that the Polish unique unit should be some kind of mounted fighter. I've seen Hussars mentioned -- my only question is whether it should be a Middle Ages unit (enhanced Knight) or Modern (enhanced Cavalry). I lean towards the Middle Ages option myself, because the peak of Polish power was before the invention of the modern rifles with which Civ3 Cavalry are armed. Besides, the Russians already have the Cossack, and why duplicate it?

Any other suggestions from the Poles (or Polish history buffs) out there?

 

[Furry Spatula]

as being 100% polish, but born in canada, i can definatley say that Poland should be given the religious trait. I have visited Poland too so i can say this with a certainty. I am not sure as to what the other trait could be, but industrious sounds good as i like playing civs with that trait .

 

[burak]

About hussars, they appeared in 16th century, and were polish best cavalry in 17th cent. so they;re rather renaissance unit like dragoons (are they in civ3?).

About abilities, I think Poland should be rather expansionist than industrious. We've never been an industrial power, but controlled much of Eastern Europe some time ago.

For Polish leaders, I suggest Mieszko(or Mesco) Boleslaus the Brave, Casimir the Great, Vladislaus Jagiello, Sigismund August, Staphan Batory, John III Sobieski or Jozef Pilsudski

Also, remember that Gniezno and Krakow were polish capitals before Warsaw

 

[filmic10]

I'm going to have to disagree about Walesa not being an important leader. Just because he wasn't a war hero doesn't mean he didn't do as much as good ol' Kazimiesz (Casmir). I kind of have this feeling because my dad was part of the Solidarity movement (movement led by Walesa). This ended the communist rule and which made him a hero to the Polish people. The same as I think Wojtyla aka JPII should also be a leader (have you ever seen the hoards of Polish pople who go to see him? I have been in the middle of one of those groups at the Vatican, another story).

For traits, religous is a definate yes. The other one would be a tossup. I would lean towards militaristic or maybe even scientific. With the special unit, some kind of a mounted warrior would be good but i was thinking maybe even a partisan (both of my grandpas being Polish partisans during WW2, i'm happy to bring that up). Please do inform me if you mke this mod.

 

[Zouave]

Someone mention King Jagiello?

Here is his great statue in NY's Central Park.

 

[spadachroniarz]

Dzien dobry!

I have also been toying with the idea of making a Polish civ.

Hussars dominated European battlefields for a century. They were heavy cavalry. They wore plate mail and fought with medieval weapons. As such, I think they should replace the knight for a Polish civilzation. I think they will be the first icon I attempt to make. I plan to add the wings to the existing knight icon.

My vote is for religious and scientific (many, many Polish Nobel Laureates) as civ traits. Expansionist is close behind scientific.

I agree with burak and filmc10 on the leader list.

Warsaw should probably be the capital, as the other civ capitals are all their current ones. For instance, Philidelphia was the original capital of the US, but the game starts at Washington...

Any new wonder ideas? We already have Copernicus' Observatory, but what else? Maybe the fortress at Malbork?

Na zdrowie!

Please keep us updated. I'd be glad to help and am eager to test anything that you make.

 

[spadachroniarz]

Dzien dobry!

I have also been toying with the idea of making a Polish civ.

Hussars dominated European battlefields for a century. They were heavy cavalry. They wore plate mail and fought with medieval weapons. As such, I think they should replace the knight for a Polish civilzation. I think they will be the first icon I attempt to make. I plan to add the wings to the existing knight icon.

My vote is for religious and scientific (many, many Polish Nobel Laureates) as civ traits. Expansionist is close behind scientific.

I agree with burak and filmc10 on the leader list.

Warsaw should probably be the capital, as the other civ capitals are all their current ones. For instance, Philidelphia was the original capital of the US, but the game starts at Washington...

Any new wonder ideas? We already have Copernicus' Observatory, but what else? Maybe the fortress at Malbork?

Na zdrowie!

Please keep us updated. I'd be glad to help and am eager to test anything that you make.

 

[burak]

I suggest Mary Curie Laboratory -doubles the science output, as it encourages second half of population to also undertake studies and research.

 

[Zmey Gorynich]

Sorry for intruding into Polish discussion, but, being from Lithuania, feel compelled to add something regarding the civilization you are about to create (to which my fellow countrymen contributed a little bit, well, may not in a cultural sense, but at least in military terms). Polish leaders should be Kasimir (if i'm not mistaken, during his reign Rzeczpospolita occupied the largest territory), Jan Sobieski (Battle of Wien), Isztvan Batori (though Hungarian by origin, nonetheless, one of the most able kings), Jan Chodkiewicz (battle against Swedes in Kirchholm, Livonia), Konstantin Ostrorzsky (twice defeated overwhelming Russian forces at Orsha), Jozef Pilsudsky (creator of XX Poland) and, should you count Lithuanians as part of Polish civilizations, Grand Duke Vytautas (the real mind and will behind Jagiello).
Special unit - I always thought that lancing was the trick Polish cavalry was particularly adept at (even a quote from Flashman "handles his lance like a Pole). So, instead of hussars (which is a Hungarian invention, strictly speaking), you could use ulans from mid XVII up to early XIX (well, even Napoleon used Polish ulans, and during his Spain campaign they were the best units he was able to field there).
Wonders - Lublin Treaty
Characteristic - Religious (yes)/Industrious (?)
Government type - Anarchy . Seriously, should never be able to switch to Monarchy, only straigh to Republic from Despotism.

Regards.

 

[filmic10]

Originally posted by Zmey Gorynich
Sorry for intruding into Polish discussion, but, being from Lithuania, feel compelled to add something regarding the civilization you are about to create (to which my fellow countrymen contributed a little bit, well, may not in a cultural sense, but at least in military terms). Polish leaders should be Kasimir (if i'm not mistaken, during his reign Rzeczpospolita occupied the largest territory), Jan Sobieski (Battle of Wien), Isztvan Batori (though Hungarian by origin, nonetheless, one of the most able kings), Jan Chodkiewicz (battle against Swedes in Kirchholm, Livonia), Konstantin Ostrorzsky (twice defeated overwhelming Russian forces at Orsha), Jozef Pilsudsky (creator of XX Poland) and, should you count Lithuanians as part of Polish civilizations, Grand Duke Vytautas (the real mind and will behind Jagiello).
Special unit - I always thought that lancing was the trick Polish cavalry was particularly adept at (even a quote from Flashman "handles his lance like a Pole). So, instead of hussars (which is a Hungarian invention, strictly speaking), you could use ulans from mid XVII up to early XIX (well, even Napoleon used Polish ulans, and during his Spain campaign they were the best units he was able to field there).
Wonders - Lublin Treaty
Characteristic - Religious (yes)/Industrious (?)
Government type - Anarchy . Seriously, should never be able to switch to Monarchy, only straigh to Republic from Despotism.

Regards.

Once again about the leaders, I explained earlier why I think Walesa and John Paul II (see one of the above posts). Also, Poland has never been a very industrious place. And about not switching to monarchy? Poland was a monarchy in its most glorious days. Commusnism is what they shouldn't be able to switch to, the communist government got to into to the way of religion, which is a big no-no with Polacy (being a Polish Catholic myself). The suggestion about the ulans is a good one. The graphic for it could be based around the Civ 2 knight (which held a lance spear type thing) or the Civ 3 horseman.

 

[DB_Terror]

Well folks,

this is an interesting discussion you're having here. I'm very interested in Poland and its history because I spent a couple of years there, and my wife is Polish.
What I find most remarkable about Polish history is the fact that their national identity, language and culture were never wiped out despite all those centuries of foreign occupation. So I'd suggest that in Civ III, Polish citizens can never be assimilated, and that Polish cities that are conquered by the enemy have a much higher chance of flipping back.

How about adding the chapel in the salt mine of Wieliczka as a cultural wonder?

I think the Polish civilization should be scientific and religious.

 

[topguy]

Mary Curie is french- she was living there whole life, she didint want to live in Poland, why do you say she was Polish??

There is a european MOD with Polish civilization already BTW
But maybe you can make better one...You could make Poland and all countires near Poland in this MOD- that would be cool

 

[spadachroniarz]

Marie Sklodowska Curie was born in Warsaw. She spent the bulk of her time at the University in Paris because that is where the other leading researchers in her field were. Collaboration is much easier if it is down the hall instead of across the continent. She was still very much a Pole. Her face is on the 10 zloty piece.


I think the salt mines of Wieliczka would be a great wonder for the Polish Civ. It would add both culture (the chapel) and trade (the mines themselves). Perhaps with the caviat that they could only be built on or near spices..?

 

[burak]

I've always thought the face on 10zl banknote is Mieszko

BTW in apolyton site there is an extra-pack with 16 civs being made. They will include Poland too.

 

[spadachroniarz]

hehe,

Sorry about that... It was a commemorative coin from 1967 that I saw on a website. I just get miffed when people here (in the US) tell me that Marie Curie and Chopin were French and that Copernicus was Russian or Italian.

What's the weather like in Warsawa right now?

 

[MaNI3k]

Hi

As being Pole I agree with scientific and religious abilities, these are the most suitable ones...

I've got a new idea about Polish special unit. Maybe we should replace Tank unit with a Rudy102. What do you think about it???

 

[stachnie]

Hi, everyone! I am a next Pole that plays Civ

I think that Polish civ should be, of course,
Religious, but the second ability should be
Commercial, not Scientific. Reason: Poland
always tends to be a zone between the West
and the East where many trade routes meet.
Moreover, at the end of communism many Poles
were going abroad (esp. to Germany) to trade

Special unit: I can't decide between Hussary
and Ulans. The problem is that Hussary should
replace Dragoons from Civ II - they were somewhere
between Knights and Cavalry. So perhaps it would
be better to choose Ulans and they should replace
Cavalry, with upgraded attack - perhaps 8/3/3
instead of 6/3/3.

King: perhaps Kazimierz (Casimir) the Great,
maybe Kazimierz Jagiellonczyk. In short: Casimir.

Leaders: AFAIK there may be only four, so I suggest
Chrobry (maybe Krzywousty), Chodkiewicz (or Sobieski),
Kosciuszko and Pilsudski.

In an European scenario (1500+) they should have the
Copernicus Observatory and the Art of War - the first
is obvious, the second because in the XVIth - XVIIth
centuries there were a lot of VERY good Polish military
leaders.

 

[filmic10]

Hey jimcat, aven't seen you make a post here since you created the thread, are youstill interested in making this mod?

 

[Jimcat]

Interested, yes, but haven't had a lot of free time lately. Perhaps this coming weekend will have some time available. I also need to read up on how to actually create and submit new mods.

 

[filmic10]

Well, when you do, be sure to drop me a line, I'd like to download it (and if you catch me at a good time, maybe even playtest it).