1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Political Compass II

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Azale, Jun 16, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Earthling

    Earthling Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2008
    Messages:
    8,518
    socialism doesn't mean you can't live in a house, or can't have shoes, or that a random guy off the street can walk into your house and take your shoes.
     
  2. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2006
    Messages:
    21,113
    Domination (and Moonbat), please read The Communist Manifesto.
    Marx explains it better than us.
     
  3. civver_764

    civver_764 Deity

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    6,436
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Well there are actually probably better explanations of it than the Communist Manifesto which was very early considering how much it developed in the late 19th century but it's still a must-read regardless :p

    And I should like to remind the right-wingers here that it took capitalists more than a few centuries to establish themselves as the ruling class without devolving into a military dictatorship.
     
  4. Squonk

    Squonk Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2002
    Messages:
    2,504
    Location:
    Poland
  5. choxorn

    choxorn Watermelon Headcrab

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2006
    Messages:
    18,494
    Location:
    Honolulu
    Right = Corporatist = People do not matter and neither does individuality or human rights.

    I can redefine words to what I feel like, too! :D

    Well, most can, some are idiots.

    True, nobody forced me to work for you specifically, but I require food to live, and I require money to acquire food. I have to work for someone.

    And if nobody shares said fruits more evenly, then what?

    What the hell did you do to make that profit? You don't do any of the actual labor.

    Okey dokey. Enjoy dying of thirst because no public service pipes water to your house.
     
  6. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2005
    Messages:
    32,781
    Location:
    Scotland
    If nothing else, it's a must-read as an historical document, if not an ideological one- Marx himself acknowledged that later developments in socialism rendered it insufficient as a political or ideological text, but refrained from amending it on the basis that it had, even within his lifetime, become an item of historical interest.

    True- let's not forgot that the first major post-feudal state was Cromwell's England, a puritanical military dictatorship with genocidal tendencies...
     
  7. Moonbat

    Moonbat Nazi

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2010
    Messages:
    170
    Location:
    Moonland
    Why are people cherry picking bits from my posts and ignoring parts of it completely? This is ridiculous. It's poor netiquette and really annoying. Please post complete posts, not some weird mess. I can't concentrate on those. Ya, I sound like a prick.


    Property is not theft. Who is the victim? Absolutely no one. Denying the right to property sure is theft and oppression. A person who owns property and uses it to create more value for others and hires people, is no thief but a hero, he deserves the profit he makes.
    And why wouldn't the dirty commies set up their own collectivist enterprises? Could they not compete in the free market? What does that say about the effectiviness of these collectives then... :lol: Would collectivism only work in a system where it was forced upon, where people had no other choice? Sounds horribly authoritarian.

    In a liberal capitalist society people would set up commie enterprises if they wanted to. No one seems to bother, theres no demand for them. You would have to force this collectivism on people, it wont come voluntarily or through democratic process.
     
  8. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2009
    Messages:
    36,545
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    UK
    We share something like 98.5% of our DNA with chimpanzees and 50% of our DNA with bananas. We have more chance of successfully procreating with bananas than with alien species :)
     
  9. Deego3

    Deego3 Prince

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2008
    Messages:
    326
    Location:
    Ireland
    @ Moonbat

    Your "collectivist enterprises" already exist. They're called "charities".

    There's socalists such as Stalin and other socalists like Gandhi. You are correct in saying that socalism can be authoritarian, but it can also be liberal.

    Socalists want to make sure everyone starts off on an even footing and prevent there being a rich/poor divide. Everyone would just work for the good of everyone else. The more authoritarian socalists will force people to work and the more liberal socalist will use evryones efforts to help the less well off.
     
  10. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2008
    Messages:
    47,077
    Location:
    US of A
    And yet I divided up and answered ever point you made in 2 posts, and you couldn't be bothered to respond to it.

    But to cherry pick one of your points, much of modern American conservatism and libertarianism is just about as collectivist on private property issues as socialism. That's why they oppose regulation, are for tort reform, oppose tax equity, and many other matters.

    And, ironically, they often use the same arguments: It's for the collective good that some must give up their property.
     
  11. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2005
    Messages:
    32,781
    Location:
    Scotland
    You clearly don't understand what Prouhdon meant when he used the phrase, the context in which it was issued and the history of the phrase within socialism. You should probably, I don't know, do some very basic research?

    They do, actually- the UK has two very prominent examples in the Cooperative supermarket chain and the John Lewis department store chain, each part of a large cooperative entity. The problem is simply that the game is stacked in favour of the capitalist class, which makes establish collectives more difficult than establishing private businesses.
     
  12. GinandTonic

    GinandTonic Saphire w/ Schweps + Lime

    Joined:
    May 25, 2005
    Messages:
    8,285
    Not to mention the Co-Op group's banking, insurance, funeral, travel agency, pharmacy, legal services, farms, property, clothing and car dealerships :)
     
  13. Gizka

    Gizka Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2010
    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    Sweden
  14. civplayah

    civplayah phantasm

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2007
    Messages:
    3,832
    Location:
    Oregon
    Compass.png

    Economic Left/Right: -3.88
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.56

    I got it in the right quadrant, but I feel I'm too centric, which worries me a lot. :|
     
  15. west india man

    west india man Immortal

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2008
    Messages:
    9,372
    Location:
    Brazil
    Go down and to the left!
     
  16. civplayah

    civplayah phantasm

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2007
    Messages:
    3,832
    Location:
    Oregon
    That's exactly what I'm worried about... :lol:

    I think I'm just a little too young to be even more radical, though. I consider myself very radical, although maybe that's just what I want myself to be.
     
  17. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2008
    Messages:
    47,077
    Location:
    US of A
    The very young is often the most radical :p
     
  18. ZeletDude

    ZeletDude The Lion

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2009
    Messages:
    5,475
    Location:
    Boise, ID
    Sorry for beating this dead horse but I just had to comment on this..
    If we aren't animals what are we? Plants? :confused:
     
  19. civver_764

    civver_764 Deity

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    6,436
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    We're God's unique creations of course!
     
  20. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2005
    Messages:
    32,781
    Location:
    Scotland
    Does that render the game "Animal, Vegetable, Mineral" heretical, then? :mischief:
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page