pepper2000
King
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2013
- Messages
- 899
Let's talk about political philosophy, e.g. the merits of socialism and free market capitalism, here.
I'm going to focus on this one for now. The problem is that we cannot only look at the economic development. Milton Friedman (who was admittedly not a leftist) wrote that welfare states are incompatible with immigration (cf. http://freestudents.blogspot.com/2008/02/what-milton-friedman-really-said.html), and we can see some results here, especially in the last few years. Switzerland has always had a rather strict immigration policy, Britain's main reason for leaving the EU is the ability to close its borders, Australia has implemented strict policies in that regard, and France (for a few decades) and Germany (for a few years) has seen a rise of right-wing parties. Of course, the full story is more complex - but that there is a problem is clear to see.Australia, France, Germany, Britain and Switzerland seems to have their stuff well maintained.
May be officially. But we were taught in the USSR that socialism is a transition step to communism.Then stop referring to socialism as if the term is synonymous with communism. It is not.
I doubt this very muchYou admitted in a post that government MUST handle some services.
Yes, I'm anarcho-capitalist and I've already wrote about it previously.If you would concede that point is false so as to uphold other statements you're making here, then you must then also admit that you are an anarchist that believes that no degree of government is positive and I think we can all admit that this model IS great until someone with power hunger takes full advantage of the vulnerability of that scenario. RE centuries of Chinese history showing many attempts to maintain stable states of Anarchy only to eventually fall to the latest dynastic dictatorship.
As it exists today. Because government is a tool of power. It's The One Ring from Lord of the Rings, which every vile power hungry sociopath craves to possess. As long as it exists, there will be fight to possess government.within a select group of powerful oligarchs outside of government wielding their massive wealth influence to dictate policy decisions upon those governmental regulators they support.
That's not exactly how Greek democracy worked, AFAIK. First of all, only certain people could vote in Greek democracy. Property owners. Limited democracy (republic, essentially) is very useful tool. Because unlimited democracy will always become mob rule though socialists.Perhaps with the modern age of cyber connectivity, a new governmental structure more akin to original Greek democracy might become possible, at which point, more frequent applications of socialism within the system (NOT a complete lack of ownership right) will be less susceptible to corruption. In essence, the nation would become a company under control of the people, all with an equal share.
Voluntary cooperation is fine and should exist. And will surely exist. More of cooperation will exist, when there will be no government to force "proper" forms of cooperation on people.I used to agree. The one thing that has made humanity such a survivable species is much less its intelligence and much more its cooperation.
That's why real journalism is essential. But NOT A SURVEILLANCE STATE. It should be only real investigative journalism, not some shady "Patriot act" jobs spying on political opponents while abusing state power.and our leaders are held to the same levels of exposure in a truly democratic system where the people have power rather than the elite wealthy few, we have nothing to be afraid of in community awareness of who we are.
Not "to support". I strongly prefer "to live our own lives". There is a huge difference.I also believe we should all be striving to be understanding of the fact that our separation is just illusory to begin with and at the core we are all the same being living out his own creation, therefore we should be supportive of growth and change and the evolution of one another towards more 'pure' beings who can and would add more value to the community than they take from it. Some might call this an attitude of forgiveness but not necessarily acceptance.
I never made such assumption. I wrote that people are complicated creatures. And that all people are different. And people are influenced by their genes, and are harnessing power of subconscience by conscience. At least try to. Some people.Your assumption that man is inherently evil is deeply flawed.
I agree. But it is critically important to add that there might be cancer cells in a body. Cancer cells are not some external intruders. They are just greedy cells who want everything for themselves. And if body wants to survive it is necessary to kill these cancer cells.The great insight for human beings to grasp here is that, just as cells of the body make up a larger whole, we are collectively ONE, that others, all others, matter as much as we do and that a world where everybody accepts this as a fact and seeks to make things better for all
It is really easy to solve this problem.Most advances here in the US are achieving little but to help people obtain more side effects that need to be further supported by other medications and never actually cure a person, just maintain the disease they have in such a way that they don't go downhill. Diseases are too good a cash cow to really solve.
Profit motive doesn't automatically exclude benefits of humanity. I've described above a free market health industry which will greatly benefit humanity.Of course this only applies when profit is the motive rather than the benefit of humanity.
Poor, poor US of A.Otherwise, the US wouldn't be falling so dramatically behind so many of its contemporaries in so many ways.
Unchecked capitalism has never been tried.The truth is, absolute socialism (aka communism) IS unsustainable by design. So is unchecked capitalism.
I might agree with several caveats. There is a huge difference in a degree in which socialism/communism and capitalism are susceptible to basic human nature. Not human corruption. It seems to me it is you who make assumption that man is inherently evilBoth systems fall to the same real problem, human corruption.
Not at all. Only something unnatural should be protected. Something unfit for survival in real life.must be protected against by a strong set of legal structures and a culture that fosters a reverence for those structures such that they are held to be unbreachable.
No it doesn't.Nobody is perfect and fostering the sense of responsibility for one another and for the well-being of one another strongly diminishes the frequency of people making these kinds of bad decisions to begin with.
You are saying we should not have any government, meaning there should be no nations, because every power hungry sociopath craves to possess it.As it exists today. Because government is a tool of power. It's The One Ring from Lord of the Rings, which every vile power hungry sociopath craves to possess. As long as it exists, there will be fight to possess government.
You are saying that instead of having nations and government we should have power houses that acts as governments who fights each other over land and power.My scenario is different. There will always be competition between power houses (maybe even wars, who knows?) for a dominance, but there will never emerge clear winner. Let's suppose there are now only two major power houses. Emerged though competition. And one will decide to become dominant power and establish itself as a "government". Then these two will engage in conflict which will eventually drain all the power from them. And this will lead to another several power houses entering the scene, only to start competition for power again.
This "explanation" has already been debunked. There were no changes to terms regarding sex crimes in Sweden after immigration disaster happened.The rape capital "award", or rather claim, was based on the amount of reported sexual offenses in Sweden, it includes sexual harrasment, indecent exposure, etc. as well as rape.
USA has number of murders on steady decline for last 15 years. In absolute figures USA will be first, but now let's remember how many people live in USA and how many people live in SwedenRegarding the murder statistic in Sweden, yeah it has increased slightly the last 15 years, but countries like Finland, Canada, UK, Germany still have more murders per 100 000 inhabitants than what Sweden has.
And one must really wonder where did all these weapon caches come from?I agree that the grenade issue in Sweden is quite worrying, there is more gang activity in the country lately, and they have successfully smuggled in some heavy weaponry like ak47's and hand grenades.
Sigh.The no-go zones in Sweden is a myth, there are areas where ambulances and the police take extra caution when entering in the city of Malmö.
No, I just mentioned Swedish disaster and you started arguing everything is fine there. So I clarified what exactly I consider disaster.Why are we even talking about this, are you claiming that the minor crime wave in Sweden today would not be there if there was les taxation there?
Human Intelligence (IQ) | The Experts Interview.You got any proof of that? Something to back up this claim?Scientific studies now possess overwhelming proof that it is anywhere from 60 to 90% genes that determine human behavior and overall results in life. In other words: it is nature, not nurture, which determines a person.
"Not much better"... These are uncomparable cases.I couldn't figure out why the doctors of that hospital decided to override the wish of Gard's parents about the hospital-transfer. There are some examples where it is right for the doctor to override the will of the parent's but this was probably not one of them.
The case of Alfie was similar, the doctors overrode the parents wish to keep the child on life support claiming it was unkind and inhumane to keep him on life support.
Without universal health care there are thousand of examples of people being forced to take loved ones off life support because they can't afford it, that is not much better imo.
Not except for my experience. Companies are never sold when they are profitable.Volvo Cars haven't called for bankruptcy. The sold it because they precisely tried to avoid calling for bankruptcy.
You got any proof?
Overpopulation turned out to be a false fear. Scientific research which arrived to "overpopulation problem" was conducted in the beginning of 20th century within scientific knowledge base which existed in that period of time.I've worried about overpopulation since I was a kid, it is the entire human race that worries me in that regard, not the Chinese in particular.
Apparently you didn't understand my explanation. I give up.Let's not forget all the other taxes like wealth tax, property tax, corporate taxes and so on that also mainly reduce the salaries for those who have more than others.
OMGSure people with low income will be less capable of saving the money they earn than those that have a bigger salary, but that's the way of the world unless all have equal salaries, even in a tax less society.
Hellooooo Bernie Sanders!I consider it a duty to ones fellow citizens, to contribute a fair share of ones spoils to ones society.
Hey! We discussed specifically American government. And it is really easy to prove that American government was never intended to redistribute wealth. Just read Constitution, Bill of Rights and comments of several founding fathers specifically about redistribution of wealth.I used it to mock your claim that government was never intended to redistribute wealth.
Oh please, provide me with links to these studies. "Especially when food is scarce". That's a killer point.There are quite a few studies made on pack animals in general, and also for all great apes that shows that it is in their nature to share food even with those they consider their enemies or dislike when food is scarce.
I'm quite sure it in most cases apply to humans too
There is a Russian proverb about this: you've heard a bell, but have no idea where it came from.Historically, in times of need, people tend to overcome their differences and make choices that may endanger ones own life through sharing scarce food, medicine or housing.
I'm tired of debunking this straw man. I'm not pessimistic of human nature. I just wrote that people are complicated, all different and struggle to harness power of their genes. With varying success rates.I'm not so sure about your pessimistic view of human nature.
Yes, yes, it is obvious for me that you don't understand even basic economics. So yes, Chavez was competent.compared to Chavez who actually imo quite a competent leader.
No, that's not my point and I never implied that.Exactly, that is funding, funding is dependent on absolute wealth, and population is absolutely tied to the absolute wealth of a country, the amount of well educated people is also tied to the population and to funding. Funding is extremely tied to the general inclination to focus on science within a country.
Many interesting innovations made in the USSR like what? From top of my head I can remember laser technology was changed to be used in data storage and transfer. And if I remember correctly, it was former Soviet scientist who left USSR (or ex-USSR country) and made this in his new country.There were many interesting innovations made in the USSR, one should also keep in mind that they were scientifically isolated, was far poorer than the US, and focused more on pure research than on instant money making concepts
Oh really? Are you speaking from your personal experience?They invented their own computer system, it is scientifically fascinating at least, it was quite different from what the west designed. USSR's early focus on IT education made the population there generally more computer literate than people in the west for a long time, might even still be the case.
Now, how above techs are not military?Many aircraft engines, some of which were superior to the engines made in the west for quite a while.
The first satellite.
Laser
And I never wrote that, also. I wrote that USSR technology was focused on military applications, and all other technology was crap. And mostly stolen. And that in sheer number of inventions USSR was far behind USA, while having huge number of state-owned research institutes which were hefty funded.I'm simply saying that the USSR wasn't completely un-inventive.
OK, let's get to basics. All definitions as understood in political philosophy.You are saying we should not have any government, meaning there should be no nations
Medicine and kindness. Delivered by strong and determined people in white robes, proficient in helping people with mental deviations.What will then stop power hungry sociopaths from forming their own government, because they crave to possess a government, and become despots of their self made nation?
I never wrote that. Please, take time to read carefully and make genuine effort to understand me.You are saying that instead of having nations and government we should have power houses that acts as governments who fights each other over land and power.
My view:Subject 1.
His sole income is a salary.
His salary is 1000.
10 of it is taken away as progressive income tax.
790 more is taken away as indirect taxation. Which is also hidden in over-inflated prices for goods and services consumed daily. Prices are over-inflated because businesses must pay all sorts of high taxes, as moronic as soda tax.
Subject 1 has 80% of his total income taken away from him by force in various forms of taxation.
Subject 2.
His salary is 10000.
8000 of it is taken away by progressive income tax.
He also has passive income 1000000 from different sources (rent, stock portfolio, business).
He optimizes his taxes in family trust, local business and offshore business.
320000 of this passive income is taken away as all sorts of direct and indirect taxation. Including 20000 spent as indirect taxation for goods and services at over inflated prices consumed daily, plus luxury goods and services consumed on regular basis.
Let's calculate. Total income: 10000+1000000=1010000. Total taxes: 8000+320000 = 328000.
Subject 2 has 32,47% of his total income taken away from him by force in various forms of taxation.
I should show this to my wife.If I take your Euro and give nothing in return, it is a criminal exchange.
I'm sure it's not how it was. Mammoths protested by making a red paste of early men.Early Man hunted Mammoths without giving Mammoths anything back. The Mammoths protested this by going extinct.
Bravo!What you reward you get more of. Many things that are wrong in the West are caused by this: rewarding what is wrong and punishing what is right. The more you reward unemployment by unemployment benefits, the more people will become unemployed. The more you punish labor with taxes, the less people will work. A generous welfare system rewards people for NOT growing food, no matter how many people are hungry.
It became primary problem in political and economic philosophy exclusively for selfish reasons of vile people, who want to cheat the system for their benefit.However, society cannot function without some kind of unequal exchange. Nobody can expect a baby or somebody with a broken back to earn his own livelihood. How much of unequal exchange is necessary and how much to enforce it, is the primary problem in political and economic philosophy.
Correction: an economy based on voluntary exchange will be a prosperous one.An economy based on equal exchange will be a prosperous one, as everybody will want to participate.
What about other, indirect taxation methods? Precisely: VAT, import VAT, levies, import duties. How this indirect taxation influences income of Subject 1?My view:
Subject 1.
Total income 1000.
10 of it is taken away as progressive income tax (10%).
Subject 1 has 990 in yearly income which he may spend how he/she please.
Luxury taxes does not influence income, it influence the cost of living and does so equally for all, I made it clear in my post that I consider it fair.What about other, indirect taxation methods? Precisely: VAT, import VAT, levies, import duties. How this indirect taxation influences income of Subject 1?
But I've just shown you in figures that high taxes DO NOT influence the cost of living equally for allLuxury taxes does not influence income, it influence the cost of living and does so equally for all, I made it clear in my post that I consider it fair.
Even in a tax-less society, a person with a low salary would spend a higher percentage of his/her income than a person with a higher salary would, at least if they both spend their money reasonably.But I've just shown you in figures that high taxes DO NOT influence the cost of living equally for all
It should be clear that high taxes have more negative impact on low earners.
USA - 2016:USA has number of murders on steady decline for last 15 years. In absolute figures USA will be first, but now let's remember how many people live in USA and how many people live in Sweden
Even in a tax-less society, a person with a low salary would spend a higher percentage of his income than a person with a higher salary would, at least if they both spend their money reasonably.
The cost of living is the cost of living, and the expenses for the poorest when nothing is paid for by the state, would overshadow the tax a poor person would pay in a tax based society. Unless the tax code is deeply unfair/flawed.
Sure it's unfair for the rich in the moment, but I'm of the opinion that it's worth the price for the rich in the long run.
I'm not sure what you are saying no to here.Nope... middle east is tax free and has some of the richest people....yet those folks fly to europe or USA to spend.
also spending of rich is on borrowing not saving. only middleclass spends from savings. any rich person u see who has millions, his debt / companies debt will be more than his income
Some people want to ignore/deny it due to conflict of interest.3) Global warming. As an increase of average surface temperature on planet Earth induced by human activities. Turned out to be a hoax.
It's not controversial anymore. There are dozens of studies debunking Global Warming hoax.You stepped on extremely controversial territory (but not controversial in scientific community) with claim like that.
Ironic - nuclear power would save them from climate change or at least from shortage of fossil fuels.Nuclear electric power generation was a target of ecological activism.
Actually, there is a video on YouTube made by Greenpeace founder explaining why he left the movement. He says that Greenpeace has turned into extortion group harassing industries by a threat of negative publicity to get money from them.
Also, there is a video on the Internet by one of the German environmentalists titled Why I changed my mind about nuclear power. Tons of stats there how exactly nuclear power is better than reusable energy sources.
I'm not saying we should abandon our quest to transfer to reusable. This would actually be very nice. I'm all in to have my own power plant on my rooftop and in my backyard (if I had any of them - I live in multi apartment building). But we must keep our heads cool and think clearly. And calculate A LOT.