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[Poll] Civ IV Traits in VP

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by Enginseer, Jul 14, 2017.

?

Vox Populi's Political Traits?

Poll closed Jul 16, 2017.
  1. Sure.

    60.0%
  2. Nah.

    40.0%
  1. Enginseer

    Enginseer Salientia of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Who would like Civ IV Traits Incorporated into Vox Populi? The only difference here in this modmod is that in exchange for being able to choose any trait, you can only choose one upon settling your first city.

    I can make it fairly simple considering my vast experience in modding (approximately 5 man-hour), but I need to see considerable support to support and balance out this feature.

    • Aggressive: Units trained receive +10 XP. +5% Unit Supply from Population. +1 Golden Age Point from Barrack. Begins with a free spearman.
    • Protective: +4 City Strength Defense. Units in cities will always heal 5 points per turn regardless of actions taken. +1 Golden Age Point from Wall. When chosen begin with an archer.
    • Expansive: +1 Food from Well/Watermill. +1 Population in all Cities. +1 Golden Age Point from Aqueduct. When chosen begin with a pathfinder.
    • Industrious: Gain 10 Production for building buildings scaling upon era. +1 Golden Age Point from Forge. When chosen begin with 50 Production in the Capital.
    • Commercial: Cities generate +2 Gold. 10% of Gold Purchases is converted into Golden Age Points. City Connections generate +1% Gold per City. +1 Golden Age Point from Caravansary. When chosen begin with a free market.
    • Enlightened: Earn 5 Science for each City upon a tech researched scaling upon era. Scientist generate +1 Science. +1 Golden Age Point from Library. When chosen begin with a free council.
    • Creative: +1 Border Growth in all cities. Guilds provide +10% Culture. +1 Golden Age Point from Amphitheater. When chosen begin with a free 10 Culture.
    • Charismatic: WLTKD for 5 turns in newly-acquired Cities. -10% Unhappiness. +1 Golden Age Point from Colosseum. When chosen begin with an additional WLTKD for 15 turns in the Capital.
    • Philosophical: Receive a free Great Person of choice(Engineer/Artist/Scientist/Merchant/General/Admiral only). +15% Great Person Generation. Great People Improvements and Gardens generate +2 Golden Age Points.
    • Spiritual: +1 Faith to Shrine. +1 to all City Yields for every World Religion that has at least 1 follower in the city. +1 Golden Age Point from Temple. When chosen begin with a free shrine.
    • Diplomatic: +15 Diplomatic Opinion with all Major Civilizations. +1 Paper. +2 Golden Age Point from Chanceries. When chosen all met city-states receive +25 Influence with you.
    • Vigilant: Spies can never fail their advanced actions. Foreign spies are -25% ineffective at causing unrest. +3 Golden Age Points from Constabularies.

    Spoiler :

    Offense
    Defense
    Growth
    Production
    Infrastructure
    Gold
    Science
    Culture
    Happiness
    Great People
    Religion
    Diplomacy
    Espionage
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
    Yaviel likes this.
  2. FoxOfWar

    FoxOfWar Prince

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    Seems interesting, as additional layers of choice are. Granted, much like the chagrin with India's T1 pantheon was before the prophet change, this would create a bit of "I have no idea what I am doing this game yet, so what do I pick" kind of problem. Mayhap make the choice upon hitting Classical?
     
  3. Enginseer

    Enginseer Salientia of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Problem shouldn't exist because all these choices are extremely versatile and work regardless of the circumstances.
     
  4. bigcat88

    bigcat88 King

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    I like the concept. Can u guys if u say "no" - write some words, why u vote so?
     
  5. Asterix Rage

    Asterix Rage Warlord

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    I love that.
    Especialy from T1. It should solve the problem about leaders always doing the same because of their respectives traits.
    Does a same trait could be picked by several leaders?
    Does this new traits will have an impact about building and strategy flavor?
     
  6. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    While I don't think the idea is completely insane. I don't really like the implementation.

    For example Vigilant feels like it would be too powerful and come online too late not to be that powerful. Diplomatic feels like something that doesn't work out properly in multiplayer. Philosophical feels like it would be too much of a jump unless you lock the free GP behind a tech. And even then it provides way more benefits than most of the other ones.

    I mean compare starting out your first city with a free manufactory on turn one, which also provides an extra 2 GAP, with getting 10 production from every building constructed, you'd have to construct a building every 2 turns to keep up. And that's completely disregarding the crazy flexibility that comes with a free GP of your choice.
    I mean I can see that you thought getting +1 culture per city was too strong, well getting a turn 1 artist which turns into a turn 1 great work of art does pretty much the same thing, if not better.

    I'm not sure if it's at all possible to make something like this actually balanced at all, but don't take my word for it.
     
  7. Aldebaran1997

    Aldebaran1997 Prince

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    This might be a stupid question, but why Growth trait has the name "Expansive" which suppose to be opposite I think?
     
  8. FoxOfWar

    FoxOfWar Prince

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    Yeah, taking a second look that's probably right. Some seem strong(Industrious, Charismatic) but that's just fiddling with numbers really.
     
  9. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    Please, don't add this to base game. It's difficult to balance things as it is. I'm already choosing some traits when I pick a civilization. CIV IV had those traits as a way to differentiate civs, but I don't think the same applies here.
     
  10. bigcat88

    bigcat88 King

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    It is difficult, but I am pretty sure that we can balance it. Just need some discussion, beta version and discussion again...
     
  11. Enginseer

    Enginseer Salientia of the Community Patch Supporter

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    You only get to pick one trait hence why one trait seems more powerful than the other. Perception is key here.
    Column 1 Column 2 Column 3
    Name Early-Mid Bonus Late Bonus
    Aggressive All units go from level 1 to 2. Add an armory and a barrack and they go from 2 to 3. A pretty early GAP contributor as well +5% Unit Supply from population will play an important role definitely when I go aggressive and war weariness still carry a toll on my people.
    Protective Relatively insane since it helps to keep crime in check along with an early GAP contributor. Bonus also stacks with the hospital, so garrisons and aircraft can be healing 1/5 of its health everytime it attacks.
    Expansive +1 Population, +1 Food from a growth building. A moderate early GAP contributor. None, it is expected that your population boom from early expansion should help you overall.
    Industrious This is just a fancy way of saying overall -10% Production Cost off buildings. You can otherwise exploit this bonus to start building a Monument and shave off turns by building a Spearmen right after. As long as if you keep building buildings, the bonus is noticeable.
    Commercial +2 Gold can allow my city to really jumpstart its investments. Especially that investments can be converted into Golden Age Points. As long as I can keep investing, my golden age can be infinite. You can buy your way to happiness. I'm also rewarded for going wide as well as +2 Gold can go a long way toward paying for road maintenance.
    Enlightened Slows down the negative effect of tech cost increase as you go wider and wider in empires. Researching a technology in the late game with 10 cities can net you 500 science just for researching them. Shaves off technology cost and the scientist bonus is relatively nice.
    Creative Border expands slightly faster with just an additional 1-3 tiles by the time mid game starts. I can stack a +30% Culture in my Capital if I added all the guilds, talk about huge cultural boom!
    Charismatic I get +25% Growth in all new cities for 5 turns! -10% Unhappiness can go a long way when ideological pressure and war weariness come into heavy play.
    Philosophical Start with +5 Production, +6 Science, +4 Gold, a +1 Production/Science, +2 Happiness, or +2 Culture/Tourism. Take your pick. +10% Great Person Rate should relatively give you more Great People, but I'm expecting the early game to help you more than the late game bonuses should.
    Spiritual Pursuing a pantheon is easier when pursued. If you're open with religion, you can get a max of +6 Yields in all your cities.
    Diplomatic Huge since you start off with basically a permanent marker that forces civilization to treat you better in deals and having 2 Paper by the time Writing starts can jumpstart your alliance. Diplomatic Bonus is permanent and may even help ward off denouncements and declarations.
    Vigilant None unless you're the English or take Informants in which case doesn't help you because spies don't die in cities without spies. You can now use spies aggressively when declaring war as they won't die and you can aggressively steal technology away one at a time while having foreign spies difficult at stealing at your marvels of creation.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
  12. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    I voted yes to add this to the base game. However, if this feature is added, I believe it should be optional using one of the checks in advanced set up

    Its a good list that gives pretty good variety and could spice up the game. However, design wise, they don't seem very close in power level. I always like to playtest to confirm balance, rather than just theory-craft it, but vigilant in particular seems pretty bad

    I don't think this decision should come turn 1. Allowing just a few turns to explore will let me make a more meaningful decision. I would personally vote that all civs choose their path around turn 15 (standard speed), which is about when your first policy gets chosen. Delaying a few turns will also help mediate really snowbally effects, like immediately planting a great engineer
     
    Erikose and FoxOfWar like this.
  13. Asterix Rage

    Asterix Rage Warlord

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    Good call
     
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  14. Enginseer

    Enginseer Salientia of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Fair enough. Removed.
     
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  15. bigcat88

    bigcat88 King

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    And can u teach AI to take right choices?
     
  16. Enginseer

    Enginseer Salientia of the Community Patch Supporter

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    I can't force them to take a Merchant of Venice when they're Venice when they clearly want to go aggressive instead with full of XP-filled units.
     
  17. Aldebaran1997

    Aldebaran1997 Prince

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    It seems that Diplomatic's first bonus can be meaningless when playing MP.
     
  18. Enginseer

    Enginseer Salientia of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Never meant to be played in MP, nonetheless Diplomatic section can be removed if used in MP.
     
  19. Erikose

    Erikose Chieftain

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    Like your other modmods, I like the flavor this could add. Look forward to seeing how this plays out.

    Cheers,

    - E
     
  20. Enginseer

    Enginseer Salientia of the Community Patch Supporter

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    After the poll closed, the voting went into a 60-40 support. I needed a 66% approval for this mod to be in development. Development halted until further notice.
     

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