[NFP] POLL: Civilization: historical or fantasy game?

[Kupe Navigator]

Devs:" It's a vampire"
fans:
In the alternative timeline-
Devs: It's just an angry warrior
fans:

 

[Gedemon]

But these side trips from reality are nothing new. There have been scenarios, etc., almost since the beginning. Is the difference here that you can include them in a game of "regular" civ?

I'm not arguing against implementing them, they are already in, I'm pointing that the "but people were fine with other fantasy/fantastic/immersion breaking stuff in the past" argument is a lie.

 

[lotrmith]

I guess I don't understand the difference why gaining combat strength for dead units is worse than healing when you kill units?

Because healing is like resupplying and/or reinforcing. You can scavenge supplies to re-arm or repair, and absorb defeated combatants into your own ranks. There's also a limit on healing, when your HP is full.

Gaining combat strength is like defeating a swordsman in combat and looting a machine gun.


And just to be clear, I don't know why this is contentious. I'm perfectly fine with secret societies as is precisely because *they are limited to a separate game mode*.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

I'm not arguing against implementing them, they are already in, I'm pointing that the "but people were fine with other fantasy/fantastic/immersion breaking stuff in the past" argument is a lie.

and I am just baffled at how fans are acting as the name Vampire all of sudden killed Civ.
I mean come on people!

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I'm not arguing against implementing them, they are already in, I'm pointing that the "but people were fine with other fantasy/fantastic/immersion breaking stuff in the past" argument is a lie.

That's fair. It's also fair that people complain about practically anything.

I did grimace a bit when I was watching the video and the part about vampires came up. I'd preferred them to have been something else but it didn't ruin my day. To me they are just a bit off flavor from the other (still fantastical) groups they introduced.

 

[Gedemon]

and I am just baffled at how fans are acting as the name Vampire all of sudden killed Civ.
I mean come on people!

Every one as a different limit for "suspension of disbelief", as I said mine was broken long ago, but I perfectly understand how for some people that's the straw that broke the camel's back.

 

[oSiyeza]

Again, no.

It was the same reaction for the GDR unit implementation, then the same for the XCOM unit implementation.

The fact that it's not a louder reaction for vampires make me thinks people are adapting and it will be even lower for the Unicorn unit implementation.

But Firaxis lost me long ago anyway, vampire is just the cherry on the top of the giant immersion-breaking cake that is civ6.


Some real life Regiments are more than 500 years old.

Armies that inherited historical names dont fight with spears.

Saying the GDR received the same outrage is completely innacurate in my opinion. But I have no way of proving that besides showing that noone is complaining and I havent seen any poll or post to complain about them, or bully coments in youtube about the issue...

The fact that some totally unrealistic elements received no backlash and some have only shows a lack of rational, and emotional behaviour.

The truth is that aparently 4 years after game release, 2 Expansion packs and 6 DLC. Apparently if Fxs releases some content a bit departed from the traditional stuff. Players who dont not fully like the new content, are feeling entitled to claim treason, instead of not buying or not using a fully optional content.

The same happened with the art style, because the truth is; whenever anyone changes anything, people will complain. Here is the thing, the people that wanted the same exact game as before has the previous games. Complaining for the sake of complaining does not help much anyone.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

Every one as a different limit for "suspension of disbelief", as I said mine was broken long ago, but I perfectly understand how for some people that's the straw that broke the camel's back.

But why though? Even in Civ 5 there were unrealistic things.
People are just butthurt about new things.
"an optional mythological content! HOW DARE THEY! DEVS ARE ULESS AND THIS IS A TREASON TO CIV! THEY ALL NEED TO BE FIRED!"

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Because healing is like resupplying and/or reinforcing. You can scavenge supplies to re-arm or repair, and absorb defeated combatants into your own ranks. There's also a limit on healing, when your HP is full.

Gaining combat strength is like defeating a swordsman in combat and looting a machine gun.


And just to be clear, I don't know why this is contentious. I'm perfectly fine with secret societies as is precisely because *they are limited to a separate game mode*.

So to clarify it's the ability you have a problem with, not the fact that a vampire unit has that said ability?
Anyway I just recently rewatched the Ethiopia first look video again and it showed how a Vampire was easily taken out by an artillery, well with 1 HP left.
I'm not sure if he will be overpowered once you get into the late game.

 

[Duuk]

Time out... now I want a unicorn unit.

 

[oSiyeza]

why is it such a big deal again? it is just using the name "vampire." Would you be less butthurt if it had the same ability but just said "very angry warrior" instead?

As far as I know, they dont even use the name vampire. The dev said in the video they in practise act like vampires. Which is not the same thing, as leaves room for interpreting them as an abstraction of not fantastical society.

Also a cultist is not the same as a Lovecraftian cultist, as far as I know is an umbrella term to societies that workship the occult. Which is actually historical.

 

[Gedemon]

Armies that inherited historical names dont fight with spears.

yeah, one of the things I could mod out.

Saying the GDR received the same outrage is completely innacurate in my opinion. But I have no way of proving that besides showing that noone is complaining and I havent seen any poll or post to complain about them, or bully coments in youtube about the issue...

The fact that some totally unrealistic elements received no backlash and some have only shows a lack of rational, and emotional behaviour.

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/xcom-squad.491564/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...m-xcom-enemy-unknown-are-in-this-game.501738/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/do-you-want-xcom-squad-in-game.491653/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/giant-death-robot-in-civ.377051/

Just a few, there are others.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Time out... now I want a unicorn unit.

Let's give Scotland a useful UU!
I mean I would also pay for a DLC that lets Cossacks ride bears, Mounties ride on moose, and llamas actually showing up on one of the Inca's unique improvements.
Oh and a bamboo resource/feature with pandas. I got my penguins in the game with the Amundsen-Scott Wonder.

As far as I know, they dont even use the name vampire. The dev said in the video they in practise act like vampires. Which is not the same thing.

I've seen both the unit name vampire and I've also seen the unit named something else. I'm assuming if they are like other units they might have to be promoted to call them something else.

 

[oSiyeza]

yeah, one of the things I could mod out.


https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/xcom-squad.491564/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...m-xcom-enemy-unknown-are-in-this-game.501738/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/do-you-want-xcom-squad-in-game.491653/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/giant-death-robot-in-civ.377051/

Just a few, there are others.

Well just for context, actually the majority of the players voted that they did want a X-Com squad in the game. So I think the backlash was not comparable. But this is always subjective. As we all agree that there will be always complains about anything.

I think is fair to say, that complains seem to be stronguer about this topic than before, and that complains by itself do not mean anything.

Anyway, of course my comment was not trying to mean anything except that, in general, the players have always accepted a lot of non historical content in the game, and that the community feels now more susceptible because everything is more divisive now, and we like to complain more and are less capable of accepting stuff.

In other words, we are acting a bit like babies.

 

[Gedemon]

Well just for context, actually the majority of the players voted that they did want a X-Com squad in the game. So I think the backlash was not comparable. But This is always subjective. As we all agree that there will be always complains about anything.

I think is fair to say, that complains seem to be stronguer about this topic than before, and that complains by itself do not mean anything.

Anyway, of course my comment was not trying to mean anything except that, in general, the players have always accepted a lot of non historical content in the game, and that the community feels now more susceptible because everything is more divisive now, and we like to complain more and are less capable of accepting stuff.

In other words, we are acting a bit like babies.

So far we didn't had to lock a thread because of the reactions, unlike for the Xcom unit, and I don't see why we'd have to.

I'm not following reddit or steam closely those days, but I've not seen anything major there too.

A new unit is announced, some people like it, some people don't, everyone gives feedback, that's fine, but keep it respectful.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Yeah, IIRC during Civ V times there were lots of different arguments about lots of different things.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

Not to mention all of the secret societies have biases on history.
Owls of Minerva: are basically based on real-life secret societies- like Illuminati and Freemasonry.
Hermetic Order: basically Alchimist- and yes Alchimist were real before it evolved into chemisty
Voidsingers: they are cults and even now there are various cults around the world
The Sanguine Pact : Unlike last three we don't know much about them so I have to give really rough guess but I'd say they are based on ruthless warrior group like Aztecs and Maoris( Maoris believed eating the enemy would give their mana to them)

Civ team just took a bit of liberty with each of these secret societies and people are upset because there is no actuall "owls of Minerva" and dear lord horrible thing called "vampires"

 

[Wielki Hegemon]

But why though? Even in Civ 5 there were unrealistic things.
People are just butthurt about new things.
"an optional mythological content! HOW DARE THEY! DEVS ARE ULESS AND THIS IS A TREASON TO CIV! THEY ALL NEED TO BE FIRED!"

As it comes to vampires history doesn't matter for you, but when it comes to The Celts in a weird way it's very important. Now that's a mystery

 

[Kupe Navigator]

As it comes to vampires history doesn't matter for you, but when it comes to The Celts in a weird way it's very important. Now that's a mystery

It is a matter of optional VS non-optional.
I wonder what is obsession with celts- that is like saying all Polynasioan nations are one nation. ARE THEY?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Not to mention all of the secret societies have biases on history.
Owls of Minerva: are basically based on real-life secret societies- like Illuminati and Freemasonry.
Hermetic Order: basically Alchimist- and yes Alchimist were real before it evolved into chemisty
Voidsingers: they are cults and even now there are various cults around the world
The Sanguine Pact : Unlike last three we don't know much about them so I have to give really rough guess but I'd say they are based on ruthless warrior group like Aztecs and Maoris( Maoris believed eating the enemy would give their mana to them)

Civ team just took a bit of liberty with each of these secret societies and people are upset because there is no actuall "owls of Minerva" and dear lord horrible thing called "vampires"

Sanguine just means the color of blood so it can refer to any secret society that can form a "blood" pact.
I think the main inspiration might be based off of the Order of the Dragon who members were of various noble families that helped beat back the advancing Ottoman Empire into Europe, including Vlad Dracul the father of Vlad the Impaler and and the Bathory family of Hungary and Romania, who are coincidentally deeply rooted in the whole "vampire" myths yet are real historical people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_Dragon

Also the owl of Minerva is a symbol of the Illuminati. For reasons they don't want to use the full name, but it is clearly based off of the Illuminati.