Poll: Do you own Test of Time, MGE (CiC/FW) or both?

[yoshi]

This is for general record purposes. Everybody please participate.

Specifically, the question is: How many of you own a copy of Civilization II: Test of Time (ToT for short), how many of you own Civilization II: Multiplayer (Gold Edition) (MGE for short) or both.

NOTE: This poll assumes that if you have a copy of Sid Meier's Civilization II (i.e. "classic" Civ2), you have converted it to MGE using Cedric Greene's patch (available here at CFC). (This patch only includes basic game files needed to update to the latest format; if you want the added content of the expansion packs, you will still need to purchase them.)

Note that without MGE, you will not be able to play most of the scenarios available on this site--or any other fansite. MGE is also available for purchase on Amazon, Ebay and elsewhere at a very reasonable prices.


MGE is a compilation of the original, or classic Civilization II along with its two expansions (i.e. Conflicts in Civilization and Fantastic worlds).

Test of Time cannot be "updated" as the original Civ2 can because it is a separate product, not merely a compilation. That said, it is also available on-line and occasionally in stores.

I own both but I only use MGE to play new player-created scenarios/mods, which are mostly for MGE (well worth getting the original for).

That said, a number of the most popular MGE scenarios have been converted to ToT format, which is great because ToT is a superior platform, especially so where modding is concerned. I strongly suggest that any serious Civ2 designer purchase this fine product (just ignore the da Vincian default graphics ).


Also, anybody who doesn't have ToT but has questions about it, please feel free to post them here.

Some good sources for info on Test of Time:

Cradle of Civilization - ToT Site

Catfish's Cave ToT FAQ (Wobbegong's site)

 

[Catfish]

NOTE: This poll assumes that if you have a copy of Sid Meier's Civilization II (i.e. "classic" Civ2), you have converted it to MGE using Cedric Greene's patch (available here at CFC).

Well I didn't. I voted first and read later. I've got vanilla Civ2, the Fantastic Worlds (FW) expansion and ToT.

Note that without MGE, you will not be able to play most of the scenarios available on this site--or any other fansite.

I think you'll find that most Civ2 scenarios were created for FW. You need to make a distinction between FW and MGE, not just for multi-player capability, but because of the aggressive AI diplomacy model introduced in MGE. That will affect many FW scenarios played using MGE. See this thread, for instance. It's a lazy attempt to make the game more challenging and it sucks. Unfortunately, no-one saw fit to drop it when they created ToT.

I own both but I only use MGE to play new player-created scenarios/mods, which are mostly for MGE (well worth getting the original for).

The most active (barely alive) Civ2 scenario development these days is at Apolyton. Most of the new scenarios there are being made for ToT.

Here's what I'd recommend:

• If you prefer the single-player version of the standard game and play things like Games of the Month, then you're better off with vanilla Civ2 or FW. The AI is friendlier.
• If you want to play people over the Internet (PBEM or networked multi-player), then get MGE. ToT has the same multi-player capability, but less people own it, so you're going to find it more difficult to get a game.
• If you want to play old scenarios, get FW or MGE. You can't play MGE scenarios with FW, but you can play FW ones with MGE. You can convert FW and MGE scenarios to the ToT format, but that's not exactly a painless procedure. You may encounter AI diplomacy and objective scoring issues in FW scenarios played using either MGE or ToT (conversions).
• If you want to design scenarios that get the most out of the Civ2 engine, get ToT. It's much more capable than FW or MGE. Of course, if you want to play these ToT scenarios, then you'll have to get ToT.

 

[yoshi]

I think you'll find that most Civ2 scenarios were created for FW.

Really? I never realized--figured most people had upgraded.

I'd completely forgotten about the AI aggression.

Ok thanks Wobbegong.


I'm just wondering how many copies of ToT there actually are in existence and how many of those are actually on the market (i.e. for sale).

 

[Catfish]

Really? I never realized--figured most people had upgraded.

People have a habit of not stating the Civ2 version when they upload a scenario. People also upload other people's FW scenarios and lump them in the MGE category. Not much help to those who play FW.

Almost all of the scenarios I have that predate 2003 are for FW. Thereafter more people were making scenarios for MGE, but by this stage overall Civ2 scenario development was in decline.

A quick way to check the version of Civ2 used to create a scenario (even the authors don't aways state it) is to open the SCN file with a hex editor and check byte #10: 0x27 = CiC, 0x28 = FW, 0x2C = MGE, 0x31 = ToT 1.0 and 0x32 = ToT 1.1.

 

[Banach]

I own them all, but play vanilla civ mostly because I like playing for landing, and that doesn't work as well on gold.

 

[yoshi]

You mean landing from ships right? I didn't notice: does it not work the same way in ToT?

...

Now Wobbegong, do you really expect a lazy bum like me to do all that work? ;-)

 

[Perfection]

I own Tot and CiC and FW.

Because you all wanted to know.

 

[Catfish]

You mean landing from ships right? I didn't notice: does it not work the same way in ToT?

Spaceships - and he was talking about MGE, but the same goes for ToT. I figure it's harder 'cause everyone's out to get you.

Now Wobbegong, do you really expect a lazy bum like me to do all that work? ;-)

What work?

I own Tot and CiC and FW.

Because you all wanted to know.

Thanks, I can rest easy now.

 

[yoshi]

I meant the work of having to DL a hex editor and search through the file. Remember who you're talking to: in all my time here I haven't done a single bit of work (aside from that failed Events Thread and doing some text for a Civ3 scen).

...I guess it's about time I do something substantial around here before Civ2 dies out.


Thus far 12 people have voted. It's a tie (i.e. just as many people have MGE as people who have ToT--including those that have both). We'll see if that holds up when more people vote.

 

[Catfish]

I meant the work of having to DL a hex editor and search through the file.

Not much searching required; it's the 11th byte. You can download a free hex editor here. Mind you, I probably wouldn't bother if it's just to check the version of Civ2 used to make a scenario. I have a hex editor installed already, so it's just a matter of double-clicking the SCN file.

 

[Perfection]

you really shoulda had a none option...

 

[yoshi]

What would be the point of that?

 

[yoshi]

Hm, ToT and MGE/FW ownership are pretty much the same. I wasn't expecting so many people to have ToT. This is good. (Yes I know it's only out of 16 people but that's still a fair amount for Civ2 forums.)

 

[Russia4Life]

you really shoulda had a none option...

What would be the point of that?

If someone just owns the original version they will own neither MGE or ToT, guessing that's what they meant by that.

 

[yoshi]

I'm not sure. Because as I said earlier, if you have Classic Civ2 then you can upgrade to MGE (i.e. MGE implies that you have classic). If you have FW, same deal (as Wobbegong mentioned, most non-ToT scens are actually for FW and MGE is essentially FW with multiplayer and more aggressive AI).

The issue of the aggressive AI isn't really that relevant to what I was trying to find out in this thread (i.e. to determine how many people own ToT compared with the latest 'old' Civ2 version), so that's why I didn't make make the distinction between MGE and FW/Classic.

 

[yoshi]

Wobbegong's site has a section that outlines the major differences between versions.

 

[Maniacal]

I have all of the Civ2 versions