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POLL: Independence War MN2?

Discussion in 'Civ4Col - Mare Nostrum' started by Ekmek, Apr 13, 2009.

?

Where should MareNostrum go Next?

Poll closed Apr 27, 2009.
  1. AoD2

    1 vote(s)
    9.1%
  2. Roman Invasion

    5 vote(s)
    45.5%
  3. Empire Builder

    5 vote(s)
    45.5%
  4. Other

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Ekmek

    Ekmek on steam: ekmek_e

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2002
    Messages:
    6,045
    Location:
    San Diego, California
    Thanks to a lot of work from the team Mare Nostrum is getting real close to getting a polished release. This version will be Mare Nostrum Basic. Essentially it will be the standard Colonization game but with te Ancient flavor as you see it.

    But there is a lot of potential for some changes so I'm starting a poll to see where we should go next.


    1 - AoD2
    Synosis: My most likely change will tak AOD2 v 1.09 and use it as a base for a new Mare Nostrum
    Changes: merging files and adding some xml changes.

    2 - Roman Invasion -
    Synopsis:Change the Independence War from being one against a home country and make it against Rome. Create a storyline where you are a rising power in the Mediterranean (or in one case a Roman Colonizer) and as you are doing trade you get demands from the Roman Emperor, being taxed etc. Eventually Rome sees your power growing and it invades. You win by maintaining your independence and thwarting Rome's rule of the sea.
    Changes: A lot of text to communicate that you getting settlers from elsewhere but also that Rome is exerting it power over your empire. Add a Roman Emperor LH that all the civs face. Maybe make the barbarians playable.



    3 - Empire builder
    Synosis: Cut out the empire screen and make you have to trade with other players on the map to make money and with other civs. Colonization with te empire screen really allows you to avoid trading with other people.
    Changes: Increase the gold generated for barbs. Allow the player to make some gold locally. Make goods more specialized so that you try to corner the market from the other civs. Make it so you can educate the special units. Probably python and code work will be needed.

    4 - Other
    Please add other ideas!
     
  2. koma13

    koma13 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2008
    Messages:
    662
    1)
    Would it not be better to wait until final version of AOD2. Else we'd have to do it for every update again.

    2)
    How about pretending your home city was recently conquered by rome and you are playing some refugees trying to keep their freedom. You would negiotate with the roman proconsul of your home city. Europe screen is a giant black market and the tax rate is a bribe to local authorities. Immigrants would be people trying to escape roman pressure/influence. We could even make a "get busted by a roman patrol" event. Your main goal would be keeping independence (smart, isn't it? :)) and later free your home city.

    3)
    Stop that crazy talk about removing the Europe screen!... :thumbsdown:
     
  3. Flintlock1415

    Flintlock1415 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2008
    Messages:
    1,057
    Location:
    MN
    1) Agreed.

    2) I seem to think that this would make a better scenario vs. a victory condition (not generic enough.)

    3) Oh come on. :D I think that since the countries are self contained on the map, that the Europe screen isn't much of a factor. Maybe if you made every city have a Europe screen vs. just a diplo screen for non-europe civs, it would work. You could then specialize each civ so they have their own good preferences for prices, what they'll buy/sell, etc.

    I also like the idea of being able to generate your own gold. (Mostly because I'd steal the code so that I could have a gold resource that adds to your treasury when worked in my mod. :mischief: )
     
  4. Ekmek

    Ekmek on steam: ekmek_e

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2002
    Messages:
    6,045
    Location:
    San Diego, California


    I love our Europe screen in itself but I've found that in the game of colonization - I NEVER try and trade with te other civs or even the natives. Well someties with te natives but thats just to do it, instead of half too. Now if Europe only let you sold certain goods (similar to when you do a tea party which I never do). then maybe I'd be forced to trade more. and thats what I'd like to see more rading between the other civs and a desire to cutoff another civs wine production so everyone has to buy mine. So far we see none of that. I'd also like to see wine, olive oil, etc be needed for more than just selling - like a requirement for victory points or creating an aristocracy or the technology points - something that a building would consume these and in exchange you get those points instead of converting hammers.
     
  5. woodelf

    woodelf Bard

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2003
    Messages:
    15,036
    Location:
    Gallery
    I'm an empire builder at heart, but any choice is good. I agree that you should wait for Dale to be finished before merging.
     
  6. koma13

    koma13 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2008
    Messages:
    662
    How about giving each native civ a unique resource you can only acquire by trading with that civ. We could make a special building allowing to process these unique resources and then sell them to Europe screen :).

    Strategic resources as in civ4?

    You would get a bonus instead of money. What is about the tech tree. Won't we make it more interesting? Maybe removing the limit that only one civ can have a tech. Then we could make certain techs a condition to build units or buildings (like in Civ4).
     
  7. Flintlock1415

    Flintlock1415 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2008
    Messages:
    1,057
    Location:
    MN
    Roman Invasion v. Empire Builder seems to me like Col players vs. Civ players. :D
     
  8. i_diavolorosso

    i_diavolorosso Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2008
    Messages:
    446
    I choose empire builder
     
  9. Stacmon

    Stacmon Explorer

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2006
    Messages:
    618
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    I think a synthesis of the Roman Invasion and Empire Builder choices would be great (and why not through in some very useful AoD2 features :lol:). I voted for the Roman Invasion in the poll, because I think this is too interesting/appropriate an option to ignore. However, a possible approach could be:

    Colonies' Home Cities Present on the Map, along with several other of their cities

    Like others have suggested, it would be interesting if Greek, Phoenician, Roman, Egyptian, etc. home cities were actually on the map. "Sail to Europe" would basically involve docking in the Home City's port. However, I would take this a step further and also include several other cities controlled by your "monarch"/home civilization. In this way, they would have a powerful presence in the game world itself, rather than just being represented by a single city. (All this generally applies to a realistic Mediterranean map but could also be adapted for random play). They would be powerful enough to defend themselves if attacked by the player for most of the game.

    Deal with Rome and Your Home Civilization

    I love the idea of dealing with the Roman Empire and being faced with repeated tribute or tax requests. Surviving an eventual Roman invasion is also very appealing. I do however still think there should be some interaction with the home civilization. These could be similar to your dealings with Rome or they could be different (for example, your "monarch" asks for both lump sums and taxes but the Roman Emperor can only ask for lump sums). However, there should still be some incentive for giving in to Home Civ demands (if only for example, to continue having access to the "Europe" screen and colonists, though possibly more).

    One interesting option would be to have two "paths" for players available. One could be declaring independence from the Home Civ, followed by a second "REF" event later on involving a Roman invasion. Another alternative could be maintaining favourable relations with the Home Civ and, since they are represented on the map themselves, defending against the Roman Invasion as allies.

    Maintaining the "Europe" Screen but Decreasing Reliance on it

    I think it is a good idea to allow the colonies to generate moderate amounts of income independent of trade with the home city. This could be done through, for example, the mining of precious metals (silver, gold) or by creating particular buildings ("the market," which consumes certain goods and represents trade within your own cities/colony). If you think about it, in the current version of colonization, virtually all income is generated through Europe in one form or another. Goods must be sold to them and treasure returned to them. The only exceptions are the beads given by natives, as well as trade with the natives (when you trade with other European colonies, their primary source of income after all is their own European civilizations).

    Economies at the time were much more decentralized and one of the reasons that Europe played such a large role in the time period of the Colonization game is because wealth and populations were so concentrated there. If there are a few alternatives for generating income, this could greatly increase trade between colonies. We may also consider allowing access to other Civ's "Europe" screens in times of peace or open borders (trade agreement). If these screens offered different prices or something unique, it would encourage more diversified trading.

    All of the things I am describing above may seem ambitious or beyond the scope of what we're trying to achieve. However, if there is even a single idea there that you guys feel may be a useful addition, I'm glad I took the time to post.

    Great job so far and thank you for adding this whole new experience to Colonization!
     
  10. henryMCVII

    henryMCVII Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    237
    I would prefere... hm.... roman invasion.
     
  11. koma13

    koma13 Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    662
    Doesn't look like we get a clear result from poll. Maybe we should do something like this:

    - make a MN version based on AOD2 to get all the tweaks, bugfixes ...
    - replace the revolution concept by a roman invasion
    - add as much gameplay/features from civ4 as possible

    :)
     

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