Poll: Is there a need for an "official" fix to the tech pace problem?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Keith Larson, Nov 18, 2005.

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Is There a Need for an Official Patch to the Tech Pace Problem?

  1. I like the current tech pace and don’t want it to change.

    27 vote(s)
    18.4%
  2. I think the current tech pace is too fast, but am content to let the Mod Community fix it.

    28 vote(s)
    19.0%
  3. I think the current tech pace is too fast and believe this should be addresses by a patch.

    92 vote(s)
    62.6%
  1. Keith Larson

    Keith Larson A Wild Boar

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    While I appreciate all those in the Mod Community working on a solution to the tech pace problem, I personally would like to see an official patch address this issue. I don’t necessarily think this means that the current system be totally done away with. It is fairly obvious that the fast pace was intentional and I am sure there are many people who like it. I do however believe there is a sizable number of players who find the current rate of tech advancement totally unacceptable. I would be content with just Moding it myself, if it were not for the fact that I enjoy the community that is created when everyone is playing the same game. The “official patch” could range from a total rewrite of the three current speeds, a rewrite of just the epic speed, a fourth “Historic” speed or an option to play at a “historic” pace for all three current speeds.

    I have created a poll to help Faraxis see how much of a concern this is for the community.
     
  2. Piemaster

    Piemaster Warlord

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    I don't think I can vote on this, because none of the options really express my views.

    I think that the tech pace is fine for the first few eras and is only really a problem at the end of the game.
     
  3. Keith Larson

    Keith Larson A Wild Boar

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    This is exactly the problem I was refering too. It is generally agreed that the first few eras are OK.
     
  4. Zhahz

    Zhahz PC Gamer

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    I think the tech pace is reasonable. Most players tend to focus on reducing costs and increasing research so it's kind of inevitable that they become more efficient at research as the game progresses.

    End game also feels faster (compared to say, Civ3) because you have way less micro per turn so turns can go by faster, especially if you're not at war. You don't have a worker army cleaning up pollution every turn and chances are you have a smaller empire of higher quality cities instead of a massive empire of generic cities - so you have less production queueing to manage.

    I would often fly thru endgame of civ3/C3C too unless I was at war.

    Maybe the solution is to play at a higher difficulty level where you need more troops to simply defend what you have, you can't grow cities as large as quickly, happiness is tougher to manage, and I think civics cost more. That'll eat into your research budget so instead of getting more and more efficient as you reduce costs and jack your income, causing research to become very fast, you'll have more of a steady pace.

    Another solution would be to mod the civics to cost more. As you progress you likely switch to civics that have low or zero upkeep, so you have even more of a research budget. This seems kind of whacked since the best civics should probably cost the most, not the least, and if those civics had appropriate costs you might not be able to run 100% research forever (and maybe Organized would get more respect). At the very least it seems kinda odd to have any civics have no cost.
     
  5. MrCynical

    MrCynical Deity

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    I think the best fix would be to leave the research at the 'epic' speed of 150%, but put the production back to the normal speed level. This might allow units to be put to use before they become obsolete, and help reduce the numbers of turns with nothing to do except hitting enter.
     
  6. oldStatesman

    oldStatesman Cybernaut

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    If it is seen as a problem, so much so that a large percentage of players are making changes, then there should be an official release of a new game speed so everyone is playing on the same field as far as tournament games and such.

    It would also help in strategy and discussions to keep everyone on the same page; otherwise we'd be building a new wonder, the civ 4 Tower of Babel.

    That said, I beleive that this will happen in the first Expansion if the demand is there.
     
  7. BearMan

    BearMan One More Turn...

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    I haven't even noticed this "tech speed" problem ?
    is it because I always play on epic ?

    I find it the same as civ3...
     
  8. Dida

    Dida YHWH

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    tech speed is too fast on either epic, normal or fast.
     
  9. spincrus

    spincrus sol invictus

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    Right now, the majority seems to think that the pace is too fast (like I do), but I think it should be up to the community to fix it, as people like BearMan exist who don't find any problems with it and like it the way it is.

    So it should be up to the community.
     
  10. CrackityJones

    CrackityJones Chieftain

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    I don't know if it's the pace, or the extreme open-ness of the tech "tree" that we all knew was coming, but it really is a problem late in the game. Units are going obsolete before you can even build a dozen of them.
     
  11. Nuh Uh

    Nuh Uh Warlord

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    There should be an official 're-issue' of the game by a more conscious company for many reasons (I have a feeling that unbridled capitalist pursuits coupled with potentially grievous character issues and incompetence by diector, staff, and/or affiliates is leading the way).

    That aside, my vote is "Yes, fix it 2k".
     
  12. Reservoir Duck

    Reservoir Duck Chieftain

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    The tech pace only gets worse at higher difficulty levels. Now it is not only you pacing the tech tree but even moreso the AI. At Emperor and higher you just have to do what you can to keep up by either trading for techs or conquer them in peace treaties.

    Emperor games ends in a space race in the 1800s
     
  13. Dida

    Dida YHWH

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    Well, there was a game I played where the AIs were building space ship in the 1600's. I believe it was a 'normal' speed game.
     
  14. TCJames

    TCJames Chieftain

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    As stated above its okay in the first couple of eras, but by the time it reaches the modern era its far too fast. Its just stupid at the moment, you can make about an advance every couple of turns. This means that by the time you've produced any given unit it may be obsolete. It also effectively eliminates any enjoyment of the high end units and the increased options that they represent.
    In my opinion the end game was already too rushed in civ3, this just makes it far worse. the endgame is when the player finally gets to use airpower, the UN, etc. However the current game limits the potential of these units and game dynamics because as soon as they are avaiable the game ends.

    To summarise: the end game goes far too fast and firaxis need to fix it before civ4 can ever even hope of being better than civ3.
     
  15. dh_epic

    dh_epic Cold War Veteran

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    The goal with Civ 4 was to make it possible to play a game in 4 hours, with the quick setting. That was to make multiplayer more possible. Evidently, it required more than a speedy setting -- it required the game to move in broader strokes altogether.

    Many people have found a way to wage war with all the units and made good use of nearly all the wonders. If the game were too fast, they'd be impossible to use.

    But it's not necessarily the tech pace in the modern era that's hurting so much as some of the options and choices. The end game tends to go very linear, for me, after such a wide variety of choices in the previous eras. I'm not sure the tech pace needs to be changed, but there may be a few balance issues.
     
  16. TCJames

    TCJames Chieftain

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    However the goal to make a game last less time seems to me to be a bit of a strange design descision. This is because part of the attraction of civ has always been its epic long games. It seems to me as if they tries to cater for both options by including both a standard and an epic mode, but it would appear as if the epic mode still needs to be tweaked to provide a truly satisfying epic game.
     
  17. Willowmound

    Willowmound Wordbug

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    In SMAC there was an option called "tech stagnation". Enabling this made the research rate go way down. Such an option could be included in Civ4, which would make everyone happy.
     
  18. Nuh Uh

    Nuh Uh Warlord

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    I personally think it needs another Epic option - 'Mega Epic' based upon realism in all of its modalities at 3 month or even 1 month turns.
     
  19. Mosasaur

    Mosasaur Chieftain

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    I absolutely agree that the tech pace is too fast in the modern age. The pace is fine until you hit about the middle of the industrial era, at which point the techs start rolling in at about 1 every 3 turns. The pace is so fast that you don't really care about any of the buildings in the modern age because the game is going to end in a matter of a few turns, and the units you build are obsolete by the time you get to use them. I like all the changes that were done in this game except for this one, and it has made the game into a bit of a disappointment.

    The designers said they wanted to increase the spead of the modern age because in previous civs the game kind of bogged down at this point. To "solve" this problem it looks like they just increased the speed at which the techs come in, thus speeding up the modern era. Obviously it's no solution for the reasons I mentioned above. I could mod the game so that the techs take longer to research (and I have), but as Keith Larson mentioned it's much better if it's made official so everyone is playing on the same level. I hope firaxis fixes this!
     
  20. Sorceresss

    Sorceresss Witch

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    Yes, most certainly.

    Well...of that I am not so sure.
     

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