Poll: Marine and Paratrooper which is better and why?

[Cavalry]

Well, which is better Marine or Paratrooper and why? I think neither are very good however marine it seems is far more useful. What do you think? Which dominates the other and why? And what can each be used for? :soldier:

 

[God]

Well i never use paratroopers. They're mostly useless.
Marines are only useful for seaborn invasions, which are sometimes necessary.
Marines come too late to be any good. I get tanks at around the same time. Infantry are better at defense so if i need some quick defense i draft infantry.

I really don't like the two units but i wish they were more useful. I want more ground units(non-tanks) in late industrial/modern era.

 

[Minuteman]

I'm surprised that the majority of participants have voted against both units. I'll admit that I haven't gotten much use out paratroopers, but marines are actually quite useful, especially if your civ is relatively isolated on remote continent somewhere, thereby forcing you to invest in your civ's maritime strength.

Sending two transports full (16 units) of Marines against isolated enemy outposts on small islands can be quite effective. After all, they're cheaper to build than tanks and have enough offensive and defensive prowess to be able to hold what they conquer.

Interesting thread.

 

[God]

They are cheaper than tanks, but tanks have the ability to retreat and i often find my marines loosing to infantry so they really aren't that great. Tanks can usually take out an infantry unit and take some damage and then run back onto the boat to heal.
Ofcourse it its a one square island then marines are the only way.

 

[filmic10]

Personally, I don't use either one. I have used the marine but in the end, it was guarding a captured city anyway, making an infantry or mech more useful to me. Since I usually only build airports in my big mainland cities, paratropers (which I have never used) aren't of any use to me. I also usually play on a pangea land mass so ships are rarely necessary for me. One more thing, I did like the civ 2 paratroopers, they were great. You could capture a city emptied out by your bombers (bombers being able to kill was great to) or get a great defesive position from a secluded airbase (those were great too) or from a small outpost (like a size 1 or 2 city).

 

[loki]

Marine, definitely. You can attack towns from transports, without landing. Then move your transport in the freshly captured city and unload your tanks, they still can attack on that same turn !
Check the different beach head assault threads on the strategy & tactics forum to see what you can do with marines.

loki

 

[Grashnak]

Well, my favourite late game invasion strategy (on island maps) is to load up about 10 transports with 8 marines each and park them at various locations near my target's largest coastal cities. Note: I kiss ass big time to stay on good terms with the poor unsuspecting fool while doing this.

Then when I am ready, and have a bunch of transports loaded up with tanks to follow on, I simultaneously capture the target's 10 coastal cities, all in 1 turn, followed by the tanks landing in those cities, which allows them to move and attack in that same turn too.

Done properly to a civ that has railways, I have taken as many as 15 cities in one turn (10 coastal plus maybe 5 internal, reached via the now useable railways ).

Marines rock baby.:rocket:

 

[Dirk Aurel]

Well I´d say marines,for reasons already mentioned here,do the same thing with capturing coastal cities and using it as a base for tanks.

Think that paratroopers have not deserved this though,it´s a game failure,the fact that there are no airbases nor proper air transports in Civ3.If it had been implemeted properly the paratroopers,who I consider as representing all airborne troops would be very useful,like they are in reality.Think about airbases, long range transport planes,choppers taking off from carriers etc.Have given paratroopers 8A to make the more useful.

 

[Cavalry]

The main problem with marines are the very low attack(8). That means a city that is size 12 with a mech infantry can cost several marines easily unless they are vetern or elite. In my game right now I was going to try putting 4 marines in an army however I heard that won't work due to the fact they won't be able to use an amphibous assualt.

Marines would be good if they didn't take so many to take the city.

Paratrooper on the other hand........

Edited thought: Maybe bombing the city from a carrier first would help marines attack a bit.

 

[Cavalry]

Actually, since marines ignore the targets defense bonuses with the city and city walls you can attack pretty well if you bombard the city.

 

[Reichsmarshal]

Both are fairly useless and have trashy stats. Marine is slightly better. I recommend improving their stats (if your editor works) and making upgrades that have 2 movement that come in the modern point. Basically no one thinks that a very late unit should have 1 movement, makes them useless at attacking.

 

[Moff Jerjerrod]

Well here's my humble opinion on this matter.

I think both marines and paratroopers have their uses. Marines as stated before are great for assaulting directly out of transports which is necessary sometimes. I usually back up the marines with artillery or air support. They have 8 for attack as opposed to 6 for infantry. This is one advantage. While they defend at 6 as opposed to infantrys' 10 the marine paired with infantry augment the attack ability of infantry. As long as the enemy has only infantry and cavalry as defense this combo works well in any offensive. Just remember to back the whole force up with adequate artillery and/or air power. Civ3 is all about combined arms with no one piece strong enough to stand on his own. (I'm talking late industrial early modern age here)

Now as for paratroopers. Yes their airdrop range is limited but can be somewhat extended with properly based helicopters. I like to use paratroopers to harass the enemy behind the lines. If they can get to a resource tile they can cut the roads there. They can be used to airdrop near enemy workers and capture them. Disband the workers if there is no prospect for ever getting them back to friendly territory thus denying the enemy from using them. Paratroopers must link up with your regular troops as soon as possible as they don't stand a chance against a determined counterattack. I agree that paratroopers alone don't stand a chance against any modern forces but are useful if you use them in some sort of combined arms offensive. If used properly there job is to create havoc behind the lines until regular troops relieve them. In real life paratroopers are lightly armed and are used to capture and hold key targets until the regular troops arrive. They are meant to divert the enemys' forces from the frontlines so that the regular army units can breakthrough.

Give these units a chance, if used in the proper fashion they can be quite useful.

 

[Magnus]

My invasions in the later stages rely heavily on marines. I send out a flotilla with a few transports laden with them and a few loaded carriers, battleships and destroyers for support and I can take out a LOT of coastal cities. This works extremely well with a combined land assault from another direction, it sort of catches the AI civ in crossfire that it just cannot handle. The marine 8 attack will defeat infantry in about half the cases. Plus they make a great sound with their machine guns blaring.

Paratroopers are great pillagers but I rarely go for the advance that gets them and helicopters as it is an optional advance. Bombers are wonderful pillagers too and have the same range as paratroopers (6).

 

[Jimcat]

It looks as though I'm the only one here who voted for paratroopers, which is surprising. Skillful use of paratroopers will give you the upper hand in late-game wars.

Moff Jerjerrod's post, above, had the idea exactly right. If you've got an annoying neighbor who's about to declare war on you, you can use paratroopers to make his life hell.

Your plan should go something like this. First, build a bunch of paratroopers and station them in all your border cities. When the enemy declares war, drop them onto every strategic resource within range. Pillage and fortify. If you can't reach any strategic resources, use them to take out gold mines, or mined hills and mountains near enemy cities. (This is also why I like to fortify troops over my own strategic resources. Don't want to give the enemy any ideas.)

Result: the enemy takes a hit in production, and they have all these paratroops behind the lines. Firepower that would be going to strike at your homeland is instead being used to take out a lot of strongpoints in their own territory. This should give you time to roll in the invasion force.

You should expect paratroopers to have a high casualty rate, but if you use them wisely, you'll get quite a lot of bang for the buck out of them.

 

[Jason Fox]

I prefer marines but see the advantages of both. Neither is a highly effective offensive unit by the time they come around, though.

I'd rather have one special forces unit that combines both... airdrop and amphibious assualt, and let them "stealth" in and spend their first turn in enemy territory undetected (as long as they don't attack or pillage.) Make 'em 8/8/1 and cost about the same as a tank. Even though they'd come late in the game they'd be useful.

 

[Marzipan]

I haven't used either of them much, but I think they could both be put to good use. Marines are probably the better unit since you can have a situation where only a unit with 'marine' capability will work, but I don't think there is any situation where only a paratrooper will do the job and nothing else. Folks should remember that not everyone plays on the same map necessarily, so the guy who always plays on a pangea may not understand why the guy who plays on an archipelego likes marines.

Here's what I like about paratroopers and helicopters: they are a way for infantry-type units to keep up with tanks, especially on your initial attack. If I couldn't do paratrooping or helicoptering, but I wanted infantry go with my tanks, the tanks would have to slow down for the infantry. With paratrooping and helicoptering I can move the tanks at full speed on their first push and then drop troops in with them.

 

[Reichsmarshal]

The general consensous seems to be in favor of marines. I say the clear, best, solution is to edit the stats. Makes them a * of a lot better.

 

[Cavalry]

Most interesting paratrooper startegies. I will try that. The only thing is that I think infantry can ride in helicopters too. However only paratroopers can drop in through the airports.

I find using a variety of units interesting.

An interesting side note: In real life U.S. marines usually use M16s which are not automatic, pretty sure about this. :soldier:

 

[ChrTh]

I've never used paratroopers successfully, but I once HAD to use Marines; the Germans had built a city on a 1-block island!

(If there was another way to taking it, please let me know!)

 

[Cavalry]

In most games there is at least one island that is one panel or block wide/tall. In Civ 2 you could take it without marines by using ships to attack then taking with ground units once defense fell.

In Civ 3 you must use marines to take it. ....Or you could always just nuke it..... Take your pick.