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Poll: New leaders for existing civilizations

Discussion in '[MAC+WIN] Civ4 - History Rewritten' started by Xyth, Mar 8, 2013.

  1. Xyth

    Xyth History Rewritten

    Jul 14, 2004
    If you could add just 5 new leaders to any existing HR civilization who would they be and why? (Assume a cap of 5 leaders per civilization, rather than the current cap of 4).
  2. Nightstar

    Nightstar Prince

    Apr 29, 2012
    Thomas Jefferson of America. Philosophical/Progressive.
  3. ales_

    ales_ Heir

    Apr 10, 2012
    Toulouse, France
    Some suggestions (from the RFC Dawn of Civilization mod):
    Alfred the Great of England.
    Barbarossa, Charles V or Francis I of Germany.
    Gustav Adolph of Scandinavia.
    Nicholas II of Russia.
    Cleopatra of Greece.
    Lorenzo de' Medici or Cavour of Rome.
    Basil II of Byzantium.
    Maria II of Portugal.
    Abd-ar-Rahman III of Berbers.
    Baibars of Arabia.
    Khomeini of Persia.
    Muhammad ibn Tughlug or Shivaji Bhosle of India.
    Naresuam of Siam.
    Suharto of Indonesia.
    Hongwu of China.
    Kammu, Oda Nobunaga of Japan.
  4. ales_

    ales_ Heir

    Apr 10, 2012
    Toulouse, France
    Updated the previous post.
  5. Little Faith

    Little Faith Warlord

    Sep 13, 2009
    Deng Xiaoping of China.
    I know Mao is already there as a modern era leader, but Deng was pretty much the guy who oversaw China's change into the economic powerhouse it is today.
  6. Jarlaxe Baenre

    Jarlaxe Baenre Emperor

    Feb 17, 2010
    Calgary, Alberta, Canada
    Ashur-dan II of Assyria. Two of the three assyrian leaders are tactical, so I think that something else would be good. The reference chart shows that there is no leader who is judicial and traditional. As the biography on wikipedia says, he build government offices in all of the Assyrian provinces. That matches judicial best. Only philosophical and traditional are not already used, and traditional seems like it might fit the idea of improving your empire as is, especially with its 25% production bonus for buildings constructed in the capital.
  7. lindsay40k

    lindsay40k Emperor

    Mar 13, 2009
    Lenin of Russia: Revolutionary, Charismatic. Pref: Redistribution.
    Oliver Cromwell of England: Revolutionary, Enterprising. Pref: Confederation, Christianity.
    Ruhollah Khomeini of Persia: Revolutionary, Spiritual. Pref: Fundamentalism, Islam.
    David Ben-Gurion of Israel: Aggressive, Spiritual. Pref: Standing Army, Judaism.
    James Connolly of Celts: Revolutionary, Philosophic. Pref: Redistribution.

    - Half price 'Support City Revolt', 'Incite a Riot', much higher chances of revolt from your culture in their city.
    - Capital gains x EP for y turns after changing Civics. (Would need discussion and playtesting.)
    - Double production speed of Courthouse, Jail.

    If that sounds good, I'd advocate some changes to existing leaders:
    Washington - Rev/Diplomatic
    Ho Chi Min - Rev/Pro
    Boudica - Rev/Agg
    Nasser - Rev/Org
    Gandhi - Rev/Humane
    Crazy Horse - Rev/Traditional
    Mao - Rev/Ind

    Whilst I like Connolly historically, for historical scenarios I'd perhaps prefer to see Yasser Arafat of Arabia; Rev/Diplo/Militia/Islam seems to suit him best, which perhaps would push Washington to getting Rev/Fin instead.

    My friend Amy doesn't have a CF account, but she'd like to see more WWII leaders; Hirohito of Japan (Agg/Trad?), Hitler of Germany (Agg/Chm?), Mussolini of Rome (?).
  8. lindsay40k

    lindsay40k Emperor

    Mar 13, 2009
    Nelson Mandela would be a great addition, actually.
  9. ales_

    ales_ Heir

    Apr 10, 2012
    Toulouse, France
    When are you planning to add those leaders? In 1.20? Which leaders are you currently leaning towards?
  10. Xyth

    Xyth History Rewritten

    Jul 14, 2004
    All depends on how soon I can wrap up development of 2nd UUs. It's proving a much bigger and trickier task than I imagined. It's taken a lot of research and I'm trying to assign stats to make each UU interesting, balanced, and not too similar to the UUs of other civs. I imagine a couple new leaders will make it into 1.20, but others will need to wait until 1.21.

    I'm going to be really picky when deciding. With Brazil in there are only 10 empty leader slots available in HR - and they have to cover any new civilizations as well as additional leaders for existing civs. This limit is determined by trait combinations, and though I could raise the limit by adding more traits, there are crucial performance and memory issues to consider as well. So best that these last 10 leaders are the last.

    My bias is towards choosing leaders that fill 'gaps' in HR; these gaps could be important cultural or political groups that are subsumed in another civilization (e.g. Ghana is not yet represented by the Mande civilization) or significant but unrepresented eras for a certain civilization (e.g pre-Islamic Arabia or Ming China). Availability and quality of art is of course another very significant factor.

    Out of time at the moment, I'll comment on the suggestions made a bit later.
  11. Absolution

    Absolution Prince

    Mar 6, 2010
    To make every civilization have 5 leaders?
    There are a lot of leaders to add...
    An the new capitals option really requires many new leaders.

    Aethelberht of Kent or Alfred of Wessex can represent to earlier times of the English civilization.
    Or if you want a leader from the times between Elizabeth and Victoria, you should consider adding Cromwell or one of the two William Pitts.

    I'll suggest Charles Martel, but I assume you think that Clovis represents the early Franks well enough.
    So maybe French kings earlier than Louis could do: Philip II, Charles V and Catherine de' Medici would be good additions.
    And if you are looking for another post-Revolution leader, Nap III or Clemenceau would be great.

    Otto the great can be a good addition to represent the early HRE.
    But I think that John I & Otto III the Margraves of Brandenburg can be a very interesting addition, and they'll represent something different from the overbearing HRE/German Empire.

    A massive expansion can be done here.
    You can add one of the following Danish medieval rulers - Valdemar I/II/IV.
    Or maybe the more recent Christian IV of the Denmark-Norway Union.
    A Swedish ruler like Gustav I, Gustav Adolph, or Christina can be good as well.
    And, of course, one of the known Norway Viking-styled kings can be added.
    I'll suggest one the following: Harald Fairhair, Eric Bloodaxe, Harald Hardrada or Haakon IV.

    If you want leaders of the Civitas Schinesghe (pre kingdom of Poland), I think that Mieszko I and Boleslaw I are good choices.
    The already existing leaders Casimir and Sobieski represent the Piast Dynasty and the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth era.
    So another king to represent the Jagiellon dynasty could be good, and I'll go with either Jogaila or Vytautas.

    HR lacks pre-Tsardom Russian leaders.
    Kievan Rus' is already represented by Yaroslav, so other great leaders will be Alexander Nevsky of Vladimir-Suzdal, or Ivan III/IV of Moscow.

    Arpad must be in in my opinion.
    He can represent the times of the Principality of Hungary (between Huns and the kingdom).
    And maybe Stephen I or Ladislaus I could be added, if you look for a 5th leader.

    Epaminondas, for there's no any Theban leader by now.
    Or you can add Pyrrhus, if you want a post-Hellenist leader.

    Even though I'm aware of your intention to remove one Roman ruler, I still suggest you add Majorian, because he can represent the WRE.

    An early medieval Spanish ruler which represents a completely different area than El Cid can be Sancho III of Navarre.
    Or you can add a king from Leon - Alfonso III / Ferdinand I or a king from Aragon - Peter III / John II, which are a good additions in my opinion.

    Maybe Afonso I?

    A Pharaoh of the Middle Kingdom is essential. I recommand Mentuhotep II.
    And maybe any Ptolemaic king?

    Another modern leader, maybe Tewodros II or Menelik II.

    Many more Sumerian leaders can be added.
    One of those three Lagash rulers must be added in my opinion: Eannatum, Urukagina or Gudea. Lagash was very important in Sumerian history and deserves a leader.
    And of course Ur III has to be represented, and I think that Dungi can be good.

    I assume that the Tiglathpileser in the game is Tiglath-Pileser III.
    If so, all of the Assyrian leaders are from the Neo-Assyrian Empire.
    What about some earlier leaders?
    I'd say: Shamshi Adad I for the Old Assyrian period and Tiglath-Pileser I for the Middle Assyrian period.
    Those two were really great leaders, who deserve being included.

    Most of the Arab great days are well represented by those 4 leaders.
    But I can think of two optional additions:
    An Ummayad leader - Umar II
    A more recent leader - from the Alawiyya Dynasty of Egypt - it can be either Muhammad Ali or Ismail Pasha.
    Though less famous, I find the second option more interesting and unique.

    There's no Parthian leader in HR, so I recommend you add Mithridates I.
    However, the Islamic period of Persia deserves many more leaders.
    So here are my suggestions:
    Of the Ghaznavid Sultanate - Mahmud Ibn Sebuktigin
    Of the Ghurid Sultanate - Muhammad Ghori
    Of the Afsharid Kingdom - Nader Shah

    There are thousands of leaders to add here, because it relates to all of the Turkic peoples (not just the Turkish).
    So, first of all I think that the Mamluks deserve a leader. I think Baibars or Qaitbay are the best.
    An Aq Qoyunlu leader could be very interesting and unique. Maybe Uzun Hassan?
    And do you consider Gokturks to be included in the Turkic civilization in HR?
    If so, then Bumin Qaghan, Muqan Qaghan and Ziebel can be included in my opinion.

    Maybe some leaders of the Khaganates (Golden Horde, Chagatai, Ilkhanate).
    I think that the two greatest leaders of those are Hulagu Khan and Casanus of the Ilkhanate.

    Well, I'm a supporter of dividing the Indians into several civilizations.
    But here are my new leader suggestions:
    - One Kannadian ruler must be included. Maybe on of the following: Pulakesi II, Amoghavarsha I, Vikramaditya VI, Krishnadevaraya, Hyder Ali or Tipu Sultan.
    The Kannadians had a major influence on the subcontinent since the early 300s through the Vijayanagara Empire and on until the 18th century. They must be represented.
    - The Sultanate of Delhi might also need representation, with Alauddin Khilji, who I think is their greatest leader.
    - The Maratha Empire under Shivaji was a great power. I think Shivaji deserve being included as well.
    - Maybe Ranjit Singh of the Sikh Empire?
    You have a lot of leaders to choose from. It will be hard to decide.

    There's a huge gap between RamKhamhaeng and Mongkut.
    To fill that gap, I think that the Kingdom of Ayutthaya must be represented.
    How about one the those three: Trailokanat, Naresuan or Narai?
    And I also think that Taksin of Thonburi can be a good addition.
    If you want Siam to include all kinds of Thai-related groups, I recommend to add Setthathirath of Lan Xang and Mangrai of Lanna.

    There are many great leaders from many different great periods in the Vietnamese history.
    So I suggest you add Ly Thanh Tong of the Ly Dynasty, and Gia Long of the Nguyen Dynasty.

    What do you think about adding Suharto as a modern Indonesian leader?

    I think that the Han dynasty must be represented by one leader at least.
    So I recommend on one of those: Gao, Wu, Guangwu, Cao Cao, and Liu Bei of Shu Han.
    One emperor of Ming or Qing is also a good idea, and I think it should be either Hongwu, Yongle, or Kangxi.
    And, even though a 20th century leader is already in, I think that it might be good to add one leader of the nationalists (the old republic) - Yuan Shikai or Chiang Kai-Shek.
    There are a lot of optional leaders, and once again it is a hard decision.

    Maybe an early pre-Goryeo leader is a good idea. I recommend you add Gwanggaeto of Goguryeo.
    And maybe a modern leader. I'll go with Myeongseon. It would be a very interesting addtion.

    There is a huge gap between Jingu and Tokugawa.
    To fill this gap I recommend on Minamoto no Yoritomo to represent Kamakura, and either Oda Nobunaga or Toyotomi Hideyoshi to represent Azuchi Momoyama.

    Maybe Lakandula of Tondo.

    There's no need to add any American leader, but I'd love to see Theodore Roosevelt and Ronald Reagen.

    Maybe Itzcoatl?

    Palenque and Yaxchilan are already representated, so I thought of Yuknoom Ch'een II of Kaan Kingdom as a good addition. He is also considered an important Mayan ruler.
  12. ales_

    ales_ Heir

    Apr 10, 2012
    Toulouse, France
    1) No, only for those which are not fully represented by 4. Also the number of leaders is limited by the number of available trait combinations and memory issues. There are 10 left trait combinations and if a 19th trait will be added - 18 more.
    2) Ptolemaic leaders are condidered as a part of the Greek Civilization.
    3) Do you know that Sumer will be merged with Amurru and named Mesopotamia?
  13. Absolution

    Absolution Prince

    Mar 6, 2010
    Yes I heard of it, and I think that it is wrong, since the Sumerians have a lot of their own.
    They are a unique and important culture. Why Merging?

    And back to the topic - since Austria is not represented, how about adding an Austrian leader to Germany?
  14. Xyth

    Xyth History Rewritten

    Jul 14, 2004
    Ah no, I'm just proposing raising the current (arbitrary) cap of 4 to 5 for a select few civs that could really use a 5th leader. There's still only 10 leader slots available in total.

    Because Sumer, Akkad, Babylonia, etc, are really continuations of the same civilization (in HR terms), and the Neo-Babylonian empire a resurgence. Same cities, similar political structures, shared cultural heritage, just evolving over time. Having Sumer/Akkad and Babylon separate feels somewhat artificial, much like it would be having both Phoenicia and Carthage, or the Rus and the Russians.

    I tried to redefine the distinction by turning Babylonia into Amurru but I'm not sure it's working. I'd need to add non-Babylonian leaders to the civ, a king of Ebla or Halab for example. Even then that's a stretch.

    Anyway, not a definite plan, just an idea I'm considering and looking for feedback on.
  15. Absolution

    Absolution Prince

    Mar 6, 2010
    So maybe merge Babylon and Akkad while leaving Sumer aside?
    The original Babylonian city list can fit well for Akkad.
    So you'll have Sargon, Hammurabi and Nebu for Akkad/Babylon, and 2/3 other leaders for Sumer.
    I can build good city lists for the leaders if you need.
  16. Xyth

    Xyth History Rewritten

    Jul 14, 2004
    While Sumerians and Akkadians were distinct ethnically, they shared political and cultural structures for the vast majority of their history. There were no cities that were solely Sumerian or solely Akkadian, their city lists would be nearly identical. It just makes no sense to separate them. They're the same civilization, just with two different names acknowledging the dual ethnicity and bilingualism of the region. Even in their era their land was referred to as 'Sumer and Akkad'.
  17. Xyth

    Xyth History Rewritten

    Jul 14, 2004
    Anyway, lets move any further discussion of the proposed Sumer/Amurru merger to the Feedback: Civilizations thread. Here's my thoughts on the suggestions and comments so far, and my own thoughts civ by civ:


    If I was to add a 5th leader to the Celts, I think it has to be a Welsh leader. Gauls, Britons, Scottish, and Irish are all represented.


    I think we've covered England pretty well. Alfred the Great or Oliver Cromwell would be interesting if there was room and art but I think there are higher priorities.


    The Netherlands haven't been around very long compared to most other civs in HR. I think 2 leaders here are plenty.


    Like England, I think France is covered pretty well. If I was to add a 5th leader it would probably be Cardinal Richelieu. There's great art available for him and I reckon he'd make quite an interesting choice.


    There is are very well made leaderheads of Barbarossa and Hitler, so it's quite tempting to add one of those. An Austrian leader makes sense too. Lots to ponder here.


    I want to add Gustav Adolph for certain. Consider him one of the 10. Art is available, I just need to free up a Tactical trait slot to give him. I think 3 leaders will be enough for Scandinavia but I wonder if Ragnar shouldn't be renamed with to someone more appropriate (i.e, more historical) for the Viking Age.


    There is good art available for Vytautus and Pilsudski. Probably higher priorities though.


    I don't think we need both Lenin and Stalin. More important to have a medieval Russian leader like one of the Ivans in my opinion. Ivan the Terrible would be my pick if there's room and art.


    I think I need to remove Attila. It's just too much of a stretch. Arpad would be a much better choice. To be honest I'm okay with subbing any of Hungary's current lineup if we feel there are better choices (and art to match). Definitely no more than 3 leaders though.


    Greece, like Rome, has an advantage as a significant portion of its history is also covered by Byzantium. There are so many interesting Greek leaders we could add, but I'm pretty happy with the current lineup. The absolute essentials are covered (Bronze Age, Athens, Sparta, Alexander) and I don't think we can justify a 5th.


    As discussed already, Rome needs to represent Italy, and it doesn't. Rome will definitely be one of the 5 leader civs, but which 5 is still up for debate. Julius Caesar is non-negotiable in my opinion, the rest all have their pros and cons. Art exists for almost every iconic Roman emperor, Garibaldi and Cavour. Unfortunately there seems to be a dearth of renaissance era Italian leader art and I think we absolutely have to have a leader from this era. I'll keep looking though.


    Basil II is a very tempting choice, and good art exists.


    I think Phoenicia and Carthage are covered well. Somewhat tempted to rename Hiram to someone else more important, but not sure.


    I think 4 leaders is plenty for Spain, good coverage of eras There's probably better choices for his period than El Cid, but I think he makes for an interesting leader.


    Maria would be my pick here, but low priority. 3 leaders is enough for Portugal.


    Given Egypt in HR really only represents ancient Egypt (medieval Egypt onwards is covered by Arabia), I don't think we can justify more than 3 leaders here. It might have been more elegant to have one leader from each of the Old, Middle, and New kingdoms but I'm happy with the current selection.


    Merkurios of Makuria would be my pick here, to represent Nubia's medieval period. There are higher priorities though.


    Happy with Ezana and Selassie, not sure about Lalibela. The art is wrong for him. I need to replace the art or redesignate him as someone else. Potential candidate for an extra leader, but not a high a priority as some.


    Really feels like there should be a 3rd leader here. A lot of possibilities, worth discussing.


    I really want the Ghana empire represented, so consider one of their leaders one of the 10. I need to research which.


    Happy with the 2 we have, no need for more.


    Fine as is I reckon.


    Mandela could fit here I guess, but I prefer to avoid leaders still alive or too recent. 2 leaders is enough otherwise, it's not a long period of history.


    Regardless of whether this civ is merged with Amurru or not, I reckon Gilgamesh and Sargon are enough to represent Sumer and Akkad.


    Happy with the choices for Babylonia, but if Amurru isn't merged with Sumer I really feel there needs to be a 3rd leader added to represent one of the Amorite states in Syria.


    3 leaders is enough for Assyria, in fact I sometimes wonder if it might be worth dropping one to free up a slot elsewhere. Incidentally I intend the leader to be Tiglathpileser I, not III.


    Happy with these, no need for another.


    If we do want to add a modern Israeli leader I think it needs to be at the expense of one of the existing ones. There is art for David Ben-Gurion but it's not all that good. It's basically just Churchill with Mao's hair. Personally I'm more inclined to cut Israel back to 2 leaders rather than adding another.


    I really want pre-Islamic Arabia represented. I've been thinking of making a Yemen civilization but now that we have dynamic city naming it's probably better to simply add a new leader to Arabia. I have some great female art that I reckon could work as Bilqis of Saba (a.k.a. Makeda a.k.a. the Queen of Sheba). Consider her one of the ten.


    Certainly some scope for a 5th leader here. I agree that another Islamic period leader would be best. Art exists for Khomeini, but not for any of the other suggestions. I used the best generic art already as Abbas. Moderate priority.


    Fine as is.


    Turkic history is confusing as hell.


    Selection is fine here in my opinion.


    Fine as is.


    There are plenty of candidates for a 5th leader here if we wanted one, but I haven't given it much thought yet. I don't see why India should be split up, other than north (India) and south (Tamil). India has been remarkably united for much of its history. I'm no expert though.


    No obvious candidates, probably fine as is.


    Naresuan would be a good addition I think.


    Probably fine as is.


    I'm happy with the current selection. There are other great Viet leaders for sure but 3 is enough.


    Maybe Suharto. Not a high priority though, in my opinion.


    I think China deserves a 5th leader, Han or Ming. Maybe even both if we want to drop one of the two Tang leaders we currently have. I don't adding another 20th century Chinese leader is at all a priority.


    I don't know a lot about Korean history really. Wouldn't rule out a 3rd if there is an essential candidate and art to match, otherwise happy with just 2. I don't have any desire to add any North Korean leaders, in case anyone suggests.


    There is quite a big gap between Jingu and Tokugawa, it would be good to fill it. A Heian or Kamakura leader probably. I'll have to see what art is available.


    I'm happy with the coverage we have here. The core islands, Hawaii and Aotearoa are all represented. There perhaps should be a leader from Tahiti or Rapanui, but ultimately I think the leader slots are best used elsewhere.

    Since it was brought up, Tondo was a Filipino kingdom and not part of Polynesia at all. The Filipinos are a civilization that aren't represented in HR at all, but there's unlikely to be enough assets to make them.


    America has no shortage of leaders that have been requested. Art exists for many of them too (not Jefferson though, strangely), but ultimately I just don't feel America is deserving of more than 3 leaders with it's comparatively short history. And as mentioned many times, I am biased against colonial civs - they just don't fit with my vision for HR. So, sorry, no more American leaders.


    Happy to sub or rename Logan if felt necessary, but otherwise 2 is plenty.


    Fine as is.


    I'd be amazed if we could even find another suitable leader for the Anasazi! The semi-legendary Kochininako was a real stretch as it was.


    I think we're okay here. One Mexica leader, and the most important pre-Mexica leader. Incidentally, I keep meaning to redefine Montezuma II as the much more important Montezuma I but never getting around to it.


    The problem with city-state civilizations is it's always so tempting to add leaders to represent one key city or another. So while we've got Palenque and Yaxchilan covered, there's still Tikal/Mutal, Calakmul, and many others that aren't. It's tricky. Of all the American civs I think the Maya are the most worthy of an additional leader, but I also feel it might be better to save the slot for a new American civ (Mississippi for example).


    I need to have a think about how or if I want to represent other Andean peoples. I don't know if there's scope or material for another Andean civilization, but perhaps instead there needs to be a representational leader added to the Inca, if appropriate. I need to do some research. Your thoughts welcome.


    Leaders will be Cunhambebe (to represent native Brazil) and Dom Pedro II (to represent colonial Brazil). I don't feel the need for any other Brazilian leaders than that.
  18. Absolution

    Absolution Prince

    Mar 6, 2010
    Celts: A welsh leader can be Llywelyn the Great.

    Germany: seriously, don't even mention Hitler.
    Maria Theresa or Franz Joseph can be good choices.
    Franz is a contemporary of Bismarck, so I think that according to HR philosophy Maria is the right choice.

    Scandinavia: It makes sense to change Ragnar into one of the known kings of medieval Denmark.

    Hungary: I think that Atilla (thought not really a Hungarian) represents a much more significant era of the Hungarian civilization that Kossuth does.

    Ethiopia: There are many other leader to replace Lalibella. Tewodros II or Menelik II are the best choices in my opinion, but bringing Zara back might also be good if you find a good art.

    Arabs: I have search the forum and found a good leaderhead of Dhu Nuwas, the Himyarite king of Yemen: http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=13861

    Mali: there is no any known leader of the Ghanaian empire. You can add Kaya Maghan, the founder.

    India: I think there should be a Kannadian leader, and especially the Vijayanagara empire deserve representation. Krishnadevaraya could be a good addition.
    Moreover, his period is not really uncovered by the 4 leaders.

    China: It can be a good idea to drop Wu Zetian and add one Ming and one Han leader.
    For a Han leader, I would choose Cao Cao.
    Even though he wasn't officially the ruler of China, he is an extremely important figure of the time and is very well known as well. If not him, than Wu of Han is also a great leader to add.
    For a Ming leader, I think it is impossible to choose between Hongwu and Yongle, but must be one of the two.

    And do you have any art for Cunhambebe?
  19. Xyth

    Xyth History Rewritten

    Jul 14, 2004
    I've not investigated art options yet, but he's an obvious candidate.

    He's been requested a few times by those who'd like a better lineup of WW2 leaders, for scenarios or whatever. I'm not opposed to having the occasional villainous leader, but I'm more interested in good representational choices for each civ, than trying to match up periods across civs. Scenarios are great, but ultimately I design HR around the full game. I certainly can't justify adding Mussolini or Hirohito, there are much more important choices for their respective civs.

    Maria is a contemporary of Frederick though, so I'm not sure. Maximilian represents Austria to some degree, his capital was Vienna.

    Barbarossa fills a gap between Karolus and Maximilian but I'm not sure its a particularly vital gap to fill. It's more that the art for Barbarossa is just incredible: http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=19007

    The current art was meant to be Menelik II and I agree that he would be a good inclusion. There still needs to be a medieval Ethiopian leader like Lalibela or Zara though - it's a giant gap between Ezana and Menelik otherwise, and a very important period of Ethiopian history.

    I've tried that leaderhead before, unfortunately it has a fair few clipping/animation issues.

    Vijayanagara was a Dravidian empire though, so it would fit much better in the Tamil civilization. Which could perhaps be redefined slightly as the Dravidian civilization.

    I imagine it'll come down to what art I can find and who it most resembles.

    He's the Tupi leader in Colonization so I'm using that art from that.
  20. Xyth

    Xyth History Rewritten

    Jul 14, 2004
    Right, going through my notes above, here's how things look:


    1. Scandinavia (Gustav Adolph)
    2. Arabia (Bilqis)

    Medium to High Priority

    1. Celts
    2. Germany
    3. Russia
    4. Rome
    5. Byzantium
    6. Ethiopia
    7. Berbers
    8. Mali
    9. Amurru (unless merged)
    10. Persia
    11. India
    12. Tamil
    13. Siam
    14. China
    15. Japan

    Low Priority

    1. England
    2. France
    3. Poland
    4. Portugal
    5. Nubia
    6. Indonesia
    7. Maya

    A lot more than 10, and that doesn't even account for any new civs we may add. Obviously we'd have to some pretty serious pruning of this, or I'd have to add another trait (which would create 18 more slots). Lack of available art will undoubtably prune a number of candidates whether we like it or not.

    Leader art is loaded on demand (I think), rather than preloaded into memory like unit and building art is. But I don't know how good BTS is at freeing up memory used by leaders. Much to think about.

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