POLL: Permanent Pantheons.

Should the features of "Permanent Pantheons" be included in base Vox Populi?


  • Total voters
    76
  • Poll closed .

4CV

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...
You're still fighting an uphill battle if you don't found. You're still far less likely to win if you don't found...
That may be true, and, following the discussion, I believe the Permanent Pantheons mod can help. But I still cannot see why the mod must necessarily be included into VP. It is more a technical question; what would be better then?
 

JamesNinelives

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That may be true, and, following the discussion, I believe the Permanent Pantheons mod can help. But I still cannot see why the mod must necessarily be included into VP. It is more a technical question; what would be better then?

There are many many possible mods that one can install with Vox Populi - most people aren't going to know about or go looking for all of them. Having some core modifications integrated into the base mod makes getting the most out of the game easier. That's what the Community Patch was initially after all - lots of well-recieved improvements consolidated into one project.

It's also much easier to manage updates and compatability issues if such things are in one package.
 

youngsteve

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I certainly support a civilization always having their pantheon, but not the rest. It always seems ridiclous to me that your pantheon gets taken away if no religion is yet founded in that city but not enough support to keep it, or another civs religion takes over, & you usually end up with some inferior pantheon of no benefit. There is enough disadvantge about not founding a religion as it is is, without this.
 

balparmak

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Yeah everyone keeping their own pantheon seems to be the lowest common denominator, and I'm guessing it'd be easy to implement, so I don't see any reason not to start with that and see how it goes.

I like the idea of keeping your own pantheon regardless of what religion you end up with. It works like real-world religions adapting or mixing with local beliefs.

Cities keeping their founder's (instead of the owner) pantheon could be even better to represent that aspect, but I guess that'd make things unnecessarily complex without bringing much to gameplay.
 
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Delvemor

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As many have said before, cities keeping their original pantheon (only 1 pantheon) regardless of their current religion is probably a good start. Nobody so far has opposed that part specifically, and it would benefit both the founders and the non-founders. I see no reason not to at least make a poll for that instead. It would add yet another thing that you can min-max in your cities.
 

4CV

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There are many many possible mods that one can install with Vox Populi - most people aren't going to know about or go looking for all of them. Having some core modifications integrated into the base mod makes getting the most out of the game easier. That's what the Community Patch was initially after all - lots of well-recieved improvements consolidated into one project.
It's also much easier to manage updates and compatability issues if such things are in one package.
Thank you for opening a different view on this question. For me, it was mainly "How do I handle modmods easily?". I still think, easiest way is moving them in and out of my mod folder, no switches, no options etc needed.
But ofc, software maintenance is important too, and that outweighs other concerns.
Spoiler :
Btw, I am not quite convinced maintenance is easier for one bigger and more complex piece of SW than for multiple smaller parts. But I cannot judge this from own experience, as I never touched coding after leaving Qbasic long ago...:old:
 

Gidoza

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I'll go with the "you always keep your own Pantheon" approach - no double Pantheon, it doesn't matter if you found, or conquer, or have it spread, if you own it, you keep your own. As previously mentioned, this could lend itself to some intelligent rethinkings of the existing Pantheons all by itself and keep things plenty interesting.
 

LarryAR

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IRL Pantheons are treated like any other religion. When another religion gets to be majority sometimes popular beliefs are blended into the new religion (syncretism). For example: Roman festival Saturnalia was adapted as the Twelve Days of Christmas.

So it would be interesting to have a pantheon belief linger in some fashion or another when another religion took over the city. Maybe get watered down a bit.
 

Recursive

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As many have said before, cities keeping their original pantheon (only 1 pantheon) regardless of their current religion is probably a good start. Nobody so far has opposed that part specifically, and it would benefit both the founders and the non-founders. I see no reason not to at least make a poll for that instead. It would add yet another thing that you can min-max in your cities.

From reading the thread and the poll results, it would seem we have a healthy majority in favor of civs keeping their original pantheon. I will implement this feature.

Double pantheons are more contentious so a new poll can be created after the "keep original pantheon" has been playtested if people are still interested in this idea.


Edit: Never mind, see below
 
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Vaya

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From reading the thread and the poll results, it would seem we have a healthy majority in favor of civs keeping their original pantheon. I will implement this feature.

Double pantheons are more contentious so a new poll can be created after the "keep original pantheon" has been playtested if people are still interested in this idea.
Great that will be lovely.
 

Bruhmoment

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From what it looks like, they're gonna add it...
I don't like the idea of literally implementing an existing mod into VP, as you can simply just disable/enable it. By doing this - you force your opinion on others, even if some of them don't like the idea. Generally speaking - by doing this - you nerf founders.
 

Recursive

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From what it looks like, they're gonna add it...
I don't like the idea of literally implementing an existing mod into VP, as you can simply just disable/enable it. By doing this - you force your opinion on others, even if some of them don't like the idea. Generally speaking - by doing this - you nerf founders.

The community has spoken!

Participation on the forum is rewarded with greater influence on the mod. But there will be an option to turn it off.


Edit: Never mind, see below
 
Last edited:

Delvemor

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From what it looks like, they're gonna add it...
I don't like the idea of literally implementing an existing mod into VP, as you can simply just disable/enable it. By doing this - you force your opinion on others, even if some of them don't like the idea. Generally speaking - by doing this - you nerf founders.

Unfortunately you're a bit late to the party. You're the first one to explicitly oppose the idea of keeping the original pantheon. Not the full mod is included, only the original pantheon part, so no "2 pantheons for non-founders".The nerf to founders is not that bad since if you found with a very situational pantheon (Spirit of the Desert for example) you will benefit from the pantheon of conquered cities not in the desert, which are very likely to have a much more useful pantheon in that case.
 

Rekk

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The nerf to founders is not that bad since if you found with a very situational pantheon (Spirit of the Desert for example) you will benefit from the pantheon of conquered cities not in the desert, which are very likely to have a much more useful pantheon in that case.
I'm pretty sure that when it states that you always keep your pantheon, cities that you own will always have your pantheon, regardless if you conquered it or not. In your example, that means all cities that you conquer will have Spirit of the Desert.
 

Delvemor

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I'm pretty sure that when it states that you always keep your pantheon, cities that you own will always have your pantheon, regardless if you conquered it or not. In your example, that means all cities that you conquer will have Spirit of the Desert.

Oh you're right I got it wrong. What I had in mind was balparmak's idea. Cities keeping their very first pantheon no matter what happens after. But I guess it would not work well with the Celts UA.
 

Recursive

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Update: Unfortunately after examining in detail how the religion code works, it's impossible to separate "keep original pantheon" from "gain secondary pantheon" without extensive modifications to the code.

As such, since the votes are 2 to 1 against implementing Permanent Pantheons as is and it's already integrated into the DLL, this won't be added. You can however turn it on very easily; all the mod does is set the CustomModOptions value RELIGION_PERMANENT_PANTHEONS from a 0 to a 1.

Sorry for the disappointment. :(
 
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