POLL: Scout Line Free Promotions and Promotion line rework.

[looorg]

Maybe this is a separate discussion, but should special forces upgrade into XCom? They upgrade to mech infantry right now.

In my game they upgrade into the Xcom

Yeah I'm wondering this to. Last time I played a late late game where x-com was even thing it was the special forces unit that upgraded into x-com as I recall it now. When did this change happen? Or is this part of you tweak mod?

 

[Stalker0]

Its SF -> Xcom in all the games I have upgraded them.

 

[pineappledan]

I didn’t change anything about that. I just noticed it while rooting around in the VP balance change folders. Maybe it was ruins upgrades or something?

 

[azum4roll]

They upgrade into XCOM on both normal upgrade and ruins.

 

[Stalker0]

Since commandos have a +25% attack, we could consider just giving that to the paratrooper/SF/xcom and removing the +25% against gunpowder and siege.

 

[pineappledan]

That’s a thought. Just make the 60% withdraw the commando-only promotion.

what would we call the +25% attack?

 

[Gizmoman]

That’s a thought. Just make the 60% withdraw the commando-only promotion.

what would we call the +25% attack?

Honestly, I'm not one hundred percent sure as to why the commando needs that promotion baseline, just leave the retreat ability on a promotion and have the commando get the +25% against siege weapons like the paratrooper (and keep that promotion for the rest of the line)

 

[pineappledan]

Poll is closed, 7:1 in favour.

I will make a commit this weekend with the changes

 

[Stalker0]

Poll is closed, 7:1 in favour.

I will make a commit this weekend with the changes

So are you comitting the exact original proposal or some variation? There was a little of discussion here around various adjustments to the proposal, even if the spiritual "core" was approved.

 

[pineappledan]

I like the idea of splitting the % attack from commando and making that the carry-forward to paratrooper and later, and dropping the anti-siege and anti-gun promotions.

I would like to post a new poll for a ice-crossing and an anti-siege leaf promotion off of TBII and SurvII, unlocked at Railroads at a later date, fill out the late game promotion trees for scout line units, since they only have 11 promotions.

 

[Stalker0]

I like the idea of splitting the % attack from commando and making that the carry-forward to paratrooper and later, and dropping the anti-siege and anti-gun promotions.

I would like to post a new poll for a ice-crossing and an anti-siege leaf promotion off of TBII and SurvII, unlocked at Railroads at a later date, fill out the late game promotion trees for scout line units, since they only have 11 promotions.

One promotion idea would be some kind of "blockade while embarked" ability. The thing some people brought up as a legitimate concern in removing the zeppelin, is you lose the ability to blockade lake cities until gunships.

 

[pineappledan]

That’s true, though that’s new code so I’m trying not to rock the boat too hard for now. It would have to come with additional defense while embarked or it’s just suicide.

It would also be super to unlock a promotion that lets you pillage tiles while embarked, so pillaged scouts could get rid of inland sea and lake improvements.

 

[Stalker0]

Also if you want to continue to streamline promotions, with the current lineup we could combine several of the promotions into 1.

Adventurer - Ignore Terrain Costs + Treasure Hunter + XP from Reconnaissance.

This knocks out 2 promotions off your units. Yes this gives XP from reconnaissance to the later units but at that point who really cares, the map is normally explored at that point anyway.

I still think the SF should have amphibious, and I'm perfectly fine with the XCOM getting it as well for consistency (who really uses Xcoms in the water anyway)

 

[pineappledan]

I'm keeping amphibious on SF, but dropping the defense and vision on embark

I'm not going to collapse those promotions for now. We need to have another discussion about why bonus yields from ruins were taken off the pathfinder in the first place. Also, I would need to test if these things can even be collapsed. Some true/false abilities are hardcoded to specific promotion, which is a problem that I have encountered trying to add amphibious, city attack, and sapper onto other promotions

 

[2506]

So are you comitting the exact original proposal or some variation? There was a little of discussion here around various adjustments to the proposal, even if the spiritual "core" was approved.

I have the same question.

 

[pineappledan]

• Pathfinder - Ignore Terrain Costs, penalty vs barbs, XP from Reconnaissance
• Scout - Ignore Terrain Costs, penalty vs barbs, Treasure Hunter, XP from Reconnaissance
• Explorer - Ignore Terrain Costs, Brute Force, Treasure Hunter, XP from Reconnaissance, Defense while Embarked, Vision while Embarked, Can Cross Deep Ocean Early
• Commando - Ignore Terrain Costs, Brute Force, Treasure Hunter, XP from Reconnaissance, XP from pillaging, +25% Attack, 60% withdraw
• Paratrooper - Ignore Terrain Costs, Treasure Hunter, Paradrop, XP from pillage, +25% Attack
• Special Forces - Ignore Terrain Costs, Treasure Hunter, Paradrop, XP from pillage, +25% Attack, Amphibious
• XCOM - Ignore Terrain Costs, Treasure Hunter, (Big) Paradrop, XP from pillage, +25% Attack

 

[CrazyG]

You can probably delete treasure hunter from everything after the explorer to reduce bloat.

 

[pineappledan]

Probably, yeah. I hadn't considered it because before I took a pass at it, treasure hunter was the only common promotion for (almost) the entire unit line. But, with Ignores Terrain spread to the whole line, we can let treasure hunter float

 

[azum4roll]

Which promotions are kept on upgrade?

 

[InkAxis]

Ok to easier understand I formatted it in a spreadsheet:

Spoiler :

I think Ignore Terrain costs can be merged with Treasure Hunter, or at least with XP from Reconnaissance if people are concerned about the fact that the warrior will get less from ancient ruins than the pathfinder. I see no reason why Paratrooper+ shouldn't get XP from reconaissance. XP from pillaging and +25% attack can be merged with no issuses, that should definitely be done as well.