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Poll: What new African civilizations would you like to see included in the franchise?

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by Xandinho, Sep 19, 2019.

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Choose five African civilizations never seen before you'd most like to see included in the franchise

  1. Ajuran Sultanate

    2 vote(s)
    4.2%
  2. Aksum

    13 vote(s)
    27.1%
  3. Algeria

    5 vote(s)
    10.4%
  4. Altava (Berber Kingdom)

    1 vote(s)
    2.1%
  5. Ashanti

    19 vote(s)
    39.6%
  6. Benin

    14 vote(s)
    29.2%
  7. Berbers (as a blob)

    9 vote(s)
    18.8%
  8. Boers

    6 vote(s)
    12.5%
  9. Dahomey

    10 vote(s)
    20.8%
  10. Ghana

    7 vote(s)
    14.6%
  11. Hausaland (Hausa Kingdom)

    2 vote(s)
    4.2%
  12. Jolof (or Wollof Empire)

    1 vote(s)
    2.1%
  13. Kanem-Bornu

    5 vote(s)
    10.4%
  14. Kitara

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  15. Luba

    1 vote(s)
    2.1%
  16. Lunda

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  17. Madagascar (Merina Kingdom)

    24 vote(s)
    50.0%
  18. Mauretania (Berber Mauri Kingdom)

    2 vote(s)
    4.2%
  19. Mapungubwe

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  20. Mutapa

    1 vote(s)
    2.1%
  21. Ndongo

    3 vote(s)
    6.3%
  22. Nigeria

    7 vote(s)
    14.6%
  23. Nok

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  24. Numidia (Berber Kingdom)

    8 vote(s)
    16.7%
  25. Oyo (Yoruba people)

    8 vote(s)
    16.7%
  26. Rwanda (Kingdom)

    4 vote(s)
    8.3%
  27. South Africa

    9 vote(s)
    18.8%
  28. Swahili

    19 vote(s)
    39.6%
  29. Zimbabwe

    17 vote(s)
    35.4%
  30. Other. Which one?

    7 vote(s)
    14.6%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Xandinho

    Xandinho Emperor

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    Since we already have polls about new American and European civilizations, I thought about creating one about new African civilizations.

    I did some research and I tried to include as many names as I could, reaching nearly thirty African civilizations, kingdoms and countries that were never in the game as playable civs. Some of them are quite obscure and probably many people have never heard of, but you can find something about them on wikipedia.

    So which five African civilizations would you most like to see included in the civilization franchise?
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
  2. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    I voted for
    Aksum: A great alternative to Ethiopia, and It could possibly happen. Ethiopia has always had abilities related to Axum Empire anyway and there is always a possibility they would want to change the name, like they did with Phoenicia and Carthage, and not give it any abilities related to modern Ethiopia.
    Benin: My favorite of the West African Coastal civs. They have a great female leader, Idia, and were a powerful city/kingdom.
    Dahomey: They had there own "Amazon" warriors and they would make a great and interesting UU.
    Madagascar: I don't know much about the people of Madagascar but it could be interesting. I know the island has lemurs and that's a plus. :)
    Numidia: I wouldn't want a Berber blob civ and Numidia seems like the best candidate. it would be a nice change to have a non Carthage/ non Arabic influenced civ from North Africa.
     
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  3. PhoenicianGold

    PhoenicianGold King

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    Under VI's naming conventions at least, Aksum would likely just be "Ethiopia." Korea isn't called "Silla" and Nubia isn't called "Kush." :p

    The only one on this list I'm especially attracted to is the Swahili, since the idea of a sub-Saharan maritime trading civ is rather unique, not to mention was necessary infrastructure for the Omani Empire.

    Also voted for South Africa because I think we deserve a modern African civ and South Africa is, if nothing else, extremely complicated.
     
  4. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    I agree, but there is always a remote possibility they could switch it up like they did with Phoenicia this time instead of Carthage.

    I'm not keen on modern African Civs appearing, unless you count Ethiopia maybe, but if I had to choose one it would be Nigeria. Though I would rather have one of it's many different cultural groups first.
     
  5. Lonecat Nekophrodite

    Lonecat Nekophrodite Prince

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    I'd go for
    1. Algiers (Should be Morroccan but if they were chosen instead then)
    UU: 'Tribal light infantry that shoots farther than ranger and comes with metal casting rather than rifling'--This is a REAL impetus that French Army considered re equipping an entire army with rifles, and led to the conical muzzleloading rifle bullets that eventually became Minie' Ball. North African (Algiers in particular) employed alot of this skirmisher against French invaders to the great effect with their unusually long (yet thin barrel) muskets that outranges small arms French Army has at that time
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabyle_musket
    These things weren't commonly deployed in open field battles by others, but North Africans used these alot in open field.
    Unique Infrastructure: Casbah. I'm not really sure what should it be. but it is a type of North African fortifications that also shown up in Medieval Spain and Portugal as well. in Civ5 it is quite a cheater tile improvement (defensive bonus+GPT+culture). Encampment replaces? maybe. City Center building? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kasbah Possible because there were privately built ones seen in North Africa that's not considered state property until much later (with the rise if modern nation state). Fortress replacement? possible but this will be redundant to Alcazar TI unlockable as Granada Suzerain.
    2. Boers
    Ability: 1. The Great Trek 2. Apartheid (low resistance when capturing enemy city)
    UU: Kommando, Light Infantry (recon) that replaces ranger.
    Unique Infrastructure, Kraal (A clone to Ikanda, but with its own defense regardless whether does parent city has walls or not)
    Cultural groups: European (They're whites)
    Archetecture: Either English or Dutch (Actually they came from The Netherlands)
    Preferred religion: Protestantism or Judaism (Some were said to be Hugernots expelled from Bourbon France)
    3. Dahomey
    UU: 'Mino' (Dahomey Amazons): All female gunpowder unit, replaces either Musketman or came in industrial era (there's a pic of them using flintlock fusil), (possibly) stronger than generic musketmen
    4. Numidia (Why assign them to Berbers?).
    UU: super pikeman that wields shield.
    5. Republic of South Africa
    UU is not what I can think of easily because they were pretty much mixed, there were 'whitemen tyranny' eras called Apartheid, and that came Nelson Mandella, also there are zulus and bantus too!
    If Nelson Mandella leads ZAR. he'll add more loyalty pressures to anyone else around ZAR. And adds loyalty problems to the enemy if his allied city is captured
    Not quite easy to think of but it worths pondering possibility ZAR could be.
    6. ETHIOPIA Why miss this ancient empire?
    Preferred Religion. Judaism
    UU: Mahal Safari.
    Unique Infrastructure: Church of Covenant (? They're pretty much sticked to Ark of Covenant), adds XP to military unit training.
    Leader: Melenik II or Sheeba.
     
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  6. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    Because they were a Berber tribe/kingdom.

    :deadhorse:Choose five civilizations never before seen.
    This is why Maya, Portugal, Ethiopia, Byzantium, Austria etc. have never been in these types of polls.
     
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  7. Lonecat Nekophrodite

    Lonecat Nekophrodite Prince

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    Are numidians and berbers related?
     
  8. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    Masinissa, who was a Numidian king, is viewed as an icon and important forefather for modern Berbers today.
    Numidia is indeed the most prominent of the pre-Islamic Berber kingdoms.
     
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  9. Lonecat Nekophrodite

    Lonecat Nekophrodite Prince

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    With pre-islamic numidian. Who should lead? and what should their UU be?
     
  10. Krajzen

    Krajzen Deity

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    Oh, I love this thread! Not gonna lie, I also like how my format of these polls is spreading :D I'd just change some technicalities in the poll:
    - Make "Somalia" civ as a choice instead of chosing particular one of its many civs: Ajuran, Adal, Mogadishu, Warsangali, Punt etc... On another hand modern state of Somalia is so infamous that naming the representative of this civ in a different way probably already incraeses its chances :D
    Because Somalia actually has great history before colonialism and complete disaster afterwards.
    - Put into one civ "Great Zimbabwe (Mapungubwe/Zimbabwe/Mutapa/Rozwi)" because let's be honest, who's going to vote for Mapungubwe?
    - I'm almost sure Axum should be just treated as part of Ethiopian civ (but somebody may enlighten me and show huge differences)
    - Buganda is missing, although it was very badly documented anyway; isn't Kitara essentially undocumented and treated as legendary entity?

    Anyway, here are my opinions on certain civs.

    Oyo (Yoruba people) - I am so pleasantly surprised they are included in this poll. So underrated and unknown kingdom, even by Subsaharan standards. Nigeria in general has always been one of major civilization spots in Africa and one of most densely populated areas but people tend to only mention Hausa, Nok, Igbo or Benin. Yoruba people are higly urbanised, ancient, sophisticated culture with well organized decently sized (100 000km2) kingdom relying on heavy cavalry. They deny stereotypes so well. The only problem is, Oyo doesn't have (so far, in the Internet) any very well documented major leader figure, but we do have some minor data on names and leaders and in worst case we can go for mythological founders.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oyo_Empire

    Ashanti - They are well known on these forums already. Much, much better representation of "African anticolonial resistance" than terribly primitive Zulu (Ashanti actually fought with organized firearm infantry and required three wars before being dominated). Well documented, culturally rich and cool.
    Swahilli - Just brilliant civilization in general.
    Zimbabwe - I'd just put it as mentioned, as an amalgam of Mapungubwe, Great Zimbabwe, Mutapa and Rozwi.
    Kanem Bornu - I am actually surprised it got only one vote so far, definitely one of major state entities in precolonial Africa. Desert kingdom of cavalry surviving for centuries, major size and influence.

    On another hand civs I dislike:
    Dahomey - It really, really should be a military city state instead. It was incredibly small (10 000km2, estimated 300 000 people) and it completely relied on a slave trade which isn't exactly the proudest accomplishment.
     
  11. Patine

    Patine Deity

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    I chose Dahomey, the Yoruba, Rwanda, and, even though it'll only let me select it once, TWO civilizations not listed above - the Ganda, of Buganda Kingdom in modern Uganda, and either one of the coastal Somali Sultanates during the height of their influence on the Red Sea/Indian Ocean trading lanes, or one of the Khoisian civilizations (San, Khoikhoi, Namaqua, etc.).
     
  12. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    Masinissa like I mentioned should lead since he founded the first unified state. He could have an ability to convert barbarians to your side.
    UU should easily be the Numidian Cavalry "the best horsemen in Africa" described the Roman Livy. They were used by Carthage as mercenaries.
     
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  13. Lonecat Nekophrodite

    Lonecat Nekophrodite Prince

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    ^ The 'Numidian' did shown up in Civ3 but as part of Carthaginian faction and not cavalry, instead their super spearman was chosen. Did Numidian spearmen superior to anyone else or on par to Hoplite in the same era?
     
  14. Patine

    Patine Deity

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    I, myself, have not heard any historical records praising and lauding Numidian spearmen, that I'm aware of. I, too, always hear references to cavalry.
     
  15. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    Not sure but for Civ 4 they went with the cavalry, though their riders did rely on spears/javelins primarily for combat.
     
  16. Xandinho

    Xandinho Emperor

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    My votes were:

    Aksum, a possible replacement for Ethiopia, which would in fact be almost the same flavor. I think Ethiopia/Aksum should be a pillar in the series.
    Ashanti, to give the West African coast more representation, and they have a good choice for female leader: Yaa Asantewaa.
    Swahili
    , an East African commercial civilization seems quite distinct enough to me.
    Madagascar, I like island-centric civs (well, I really enjoy playing as Indonesia and I already expressed my desire to have Taíno in the game). And Madagascar is interesting because they would have a very unusual TSL start.
    Finally, I voted for Benin, for the same reasons of Ashanti, and they have a good choice for female leader as well: Idia.

    -

    I need to say that I would also like to have Numidia in the game, so this would be my sixth option.

    Their existence is somewhat questioned by historians because what we know about them comes from oral traditions. I initially hesitated to put them in the poll, but since it's unlikely that we will have a definitive answer about their existence, I gave them a chance in the poll. And yeah, now that you said, I forgot about Buganda, but at least there is the "other" option for the missing options.
     
  17. TahamiTsunami

    TahamiTsunami Prince

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    Glad to see a poll for the African civs as well! Here are my choices:

    - Benin: Probably my top choice for a new African civ. They were a very long-lasting empire, have great leader choices like Queen Idia and Euware the Great, and are well-known for their intricate bronze workings.
    - Dahomey: Despite their relatively small size, they became quite the force to be reckoned with even by much larger civilizations. The Mino (Dahomey amazons) would be one of the most distinctive UU in the game!
    - Madagascar: Africa isnt short of interesting historical female leaders and Madagascar on it's own has several options. They could be really unique in being able to stop foreign trade routes.
    - Zimbabwe: I'd personally like to see this be a culmination of the various related Zimbabwean empires and kingdoms like Great Zimbabwe, Mutapa, Rowzi, etc. They do have some possible leaders from the Mutapa and Rowzi empires though, like the PNW, they require a bit of digging to find.
    - Other (Buganda): This one is probably the best choice for Africa's great lakes region. Muteesa I would be very interesting for the way he played to the religions of various countries whenever convenient while really keeping his native one.

    Shoutouts:

    - Aksum: We're most likely going to get Ethiopia again. However, I won't mind if they basically rename Ethiopia to Aksum just so they can count it as a new civ like what they did for Phoenicia / Carthage.
    - Ashanti and Oyo: More great choices for coastal West Africa. They'd definitely be a cultural powerhouses.
    - Other (Botswana): I know that South Africa is pretty popular here but I believe that Botswana would be a much better choice for a modern African civ. They have great leaders that didn't die as recently, are Africa's oldest and least corrupt democracy, they became a fast-growing economy, and their icon of a zebra on a mechanical gear is about as modern as it can get!
    - Kanem-Bornu: Definitely a great choice for a new desert civ though at this point there would be a bit of a struggle to find abilities that don't overlap with Mali. I'd support it if it can be done though.
    - Ndongo / Angola: Definitely notable for being the strongest of the Kongo's vassals and Ana Nzinga.
    - Numidia: Probably my top choice for a non-blob Berber civ that isn't Morocco.
    - Swahili: Like Zimbabwe there would need to be a lot of digging to find a great leader for them. When one is found though, they'd definitely be a top choice.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2019
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  18. Zaarin

    Zaarin My Dearest Doctor

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    I voted for Aksum (though TBH I'd prefer just having Ethiopia back), Berber (though I'd rather have Numidia and/or Tuareg), Hausa, Madagascar, and Other (Numidia). TBH the only civs I feel a strong need for from Africa, though, are Ethiopia/Aksum and Numidia.

    ...You know most Ethiopians are Christians, right? The Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church?

    Assuming you're referring to the Queen of Sheba who visited Solomon, most scholars believe Sheba is Sabaea in Yemen.

    It could go either way. On the one hand, you have Korea (which is Civ tradition at this point) and Indonesia, but on the other hand you have Khmer and Nubia ("Kush" or "Meroë" would have been slightly more accurate, but the kingdom is sometimes called "Nubia" in historical literature and "Sudan" would have been analogous to "Korea" and "Indonesia").
     
  19. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    It would most likely depend on who they pick as a leader, but my preference for Ethiopia or Aksum would definitely make there preferred religion in game be Eastern Orthodox.
    Then again Harald goes for Protestantism and Dido for Judaism already. :dunno:
     
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  20. Zatsukino

    Zatsukino Chieftain

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    I chose :

    Aksum : Or Ethiopa, one of the most needed civilizations from Africa, yet to be seen again, though I'd prefer to see the antique version of it

    Benin : Interesting culture, history and we know already a bunch about them to pick a leader

    Madagascar : Obvious Choice, Queen Ravalanova l should lead the country

    Numidia : One of my favorite civs, truly underrated civilization, they should be millitary centered with Massinissa for the lead, though I don't mind a Blob civ with Dihya as a queen of the Berbers, since historically she was, as she unified the berbers tribes to defeat the Arabian Muslims, which she succeeded for a time.

    Zimbabwe : The Great Zimbabwe would be a nice touch, as we also know a little about them and some of their rulers.


    They all seem like the best candidates to fill the continent even more, I'd even pick South Africa for a modern civilization, Ashanti, and Swahili for an eastern african coastal civilization.
     
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