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Poll: what new European civs would you like to see in the future of Civ franchise?

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by Krajzen, Aug 21, 2019.

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Choose 5 new European civs you'd like to see most

  1. Italy in united form

    27 vote(s)
    40.9%
  2. Moors/Andalusia/Cordoba

    19 vote(s)
    28.8%
  3. Charlemagne's Frankish/Carolingian Empire

    16 vote(s)
    24.2%
  4. Florence, Genoa or some other individual Italian state

    19 vote(s)
    28.8%
  5. Ireland

    16 vote(s)
    24.2%
  6. Belgium/Flanders

    5 vote(s)
    7.6%
  7. Switzerland

    8 vote(s)
    12.1%
  8. Normans

    13 vote(s)
    19.7%
  9. Goths (or other Migration Era people)

    21 vote(s)
    31.8%
  10. Bohemia (Czechs)

    18 vote(s)
    27.3%
  11. Lithuania

    11 vote(s)
    16.7%
  12. Kievan Rus (separately from Russia)

    9 vote(s)
    13.6%
  13. Cossack Ukraine

    4 vote(s)
    6.1%
  14. Romania

    13 vote(s)
    19.7%
  15. Bulgarian Empire

    18 vote(s)
    27.3%
  16. Serbia

    11 vote(s)
    16.7%
  17. Armenia (culturally 'European')

    21 vote(s)
    31.8%
  18. Croatia

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  19. Finland

    8 vote(s)
    12.1%
  20. Ancient Germania

    2 vote(s)
    3.0%
  21. Gauls

    14 vote(s)
    21.2%
  22. Burgundy

    2 vote(s)
    3.0%
  23. Wales

    5 vote(s)
    7.6%
  24. Albania (Skanderbeg)

    1 vote(s)
    1.5%
  25. Yugoslavia (Tito)

    3 vote(s)
    4.5%
  26. Individual German state (Prussia, Saxony, Bavaria, Teutons etc)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  27. Papal State

    2 vote(s)
    3.0%
  28. 'Slavs' (Samo, Great Moravia, Pagan Slavs etc)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  29. Cumans/Pechenegs/Sarmatians/Khazars etc

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Krajzen

    Krajzen Warlord

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    Title and poll explain themselves. I think Europe has so many candidates and so few 'slots' that it deserves that thread.

    Staple European civs returning each game are France, Germany, England, Spain, Portugal, Netherlands, Russia, Rome, Greece and Byzantium. We also have rotating squad of Denmark/Norway/Vikings to represent, well, Vikings. Of non staple civs we had Poland, Hungary, Sweden, HRE, Venice and Austria.

    What never before seen European civs would you like to see im future of Civ series and why?
     
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  2. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Warlord

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    I voted:
    1. Italy- My number one most wanted new Civ, though I would want it based off of the Renaissance Period and would rather not be relegated to playing one specific city-state. The one that I still want for this game.
    2. Ireland- Now that it seems we are rotating the Celts spot to "Celtic" nations I'd like to see Ireland in the future though I quite liked the idea of Scotland this time around.
    3. Romania- Vlad Tepes would make an interesting leader and be an alternate to Hungary in the future.
    4. Armenia- Would prefer them over Georgia. Not sure if politically they would be okay to include but they are at least a city-state now. Could rotate with Georgia.
    5. Gauls- They weren't mentioned but I think they would be another great "Celtic" alternative to Scotland and Ireland.
     
  3. Zaarin

    Zaarin My Dearest Doctor

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    I voted al-Andalus, Ireland, Goths, Bohemia, and Armenia, though personally I disagree that Armenia is culturally European--Armenia has always been in Persia's sphere of influence (and for much of its history directly under Persia's political control as well). I hardly consider being Christian a marker of Europeanness: Christianity is in origin a Near Eastern religion, is still practiced in the Middle East, and at any rate Armenia's specific variety of Christianity is non-Chalcedonian Oriental Orthodoxy, found natively only in East Africa, the Near East, and India (where it spread from the Near East).

    Overall I'd like to see Bohemia replace Poland or Hungary next game and Armenia replace Georgia. I'd welcome the Goths in Civ6 or Civ7. I second Alexander's Hetaroi in adding Gaul as another I'd like to see.
     
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  4. Patine

    Patine Warlord

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    What about the Aquitainian/Vascone/Dark Ages Gascony/Basque cultural and linguistic continuum, or the Principality of Great Perm (in what is now European Russia - and the original users of the "Russian Bear" as a symbol before they were annexed by Muscovy), as under-represented gems never on these polls as choices?
     
  5. Zaarin

    Zaarin My Dearest Doctor

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    What about them? They've been part of someone else's polity since Antiquity. The only time they represented an independently significant entity was the Kingdom of Navarre, but obviously Castile and Aragon won that particular competition.
     
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  6. Imaus

    Imaus Chieftain

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    Armenia has a rich, diverse history and they don't clutter the map up. On a Earth map, they actually fill in a good place between Sumer/Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Scythia; and then Russia, the Byzantines, and The Turks later.
     
  7. steveg700

    steveg700 Warlord

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    Left out Austria.

    If you have a Diplomatic Victory and a World Congress in a Civ game, who better than the country that actually had the closest thing there was to a WC, the Congress of Vienna? Not sure if Metternich could pass for a leader. He's more of a governor type, but the two kings he served under were pretty unspectacular.

    I would think Austria would be a good candidate for a civ with no UU, because even when pulling off their most cowardly gang-up sneak attacks, they got rolled pretty consistently. So no UU.

    Maybe opera houses as a tile improvement that grants a source of early slots for Great Musicians.
     
  8. Solomonic Wisdom

    Solomonic Wisdom Chieftain

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    The Franks were the tribe that actually succeeded and shaped modern Europe. Second only to Byzantium, Francia became the second most powerful realm in early medieval Christendom. But it was neither France nor Germany nor the Benelux nor Italy. They could be designed with a domination, a science, a religion, or a culture victory in mind. Coming to think about it, without a too pronounced Carolingian focus, they could have Merovingian and Carolingian alternate leaders. Personally I believe they have been strangely neglected and deserve representation.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
  9. Xandinho

    Xandinho Warlord

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    1. Italy: I am particularly a fan of Renaissance Italy, and some kind of Italian representation is expected in the game, it could be unified Italy or something like Florence/Tuscany as a separate civ.
    2. Moors/Andalusia/Cordoba: Highly needed due to their great importance.
    3. Romania: Because I would like to have Vlad the Impaler in the game.
    4. Goths: Interesting and would bring a new flavor to the game. But maybe no necessary if we'll have only more eight civs.
    5. Gauls: I don't know if they are needed in a third expansion, given the limited number of slots, but I would like them to replace Scotland in Civ7. Since they aren't in the poll, I voted in Armenia.

    Kievan Rus would be interesting as a Russian alternative leader, I don't think it is necessary as a separate civ.
     
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  10. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Warlord

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    I almost mentioned it too but then I looked again and the poll is for new European Civs we have never had before.
    Though I agree Austria is on my wish list of returning European Civs, even over some of the others we already got.

    As for them I agree that they would go great with the new Diplomatic Victory or Cultural Victory. I would personally go with Maria Theresa as a leader. I've always wanted to see her return with the diplomatic marriage ability but tweak it for this game. Have her be able to marry off one of her children to other Civ leaders for diplo favor and diplomatic visibility .
    I'd let the Civ ability be about Granting more great musician points and building theater square and holy site districts and buildings quicker.
    As for the UU I would give them a Grenzer and I guess they could get the Coffee House again because I'd rather the opera house be a universal building that any Civ could build and the Ski Resort is already in the game. Maybe it could go in the Neighborhood instead of the Shopping Mall or Food Market and grants culture and amenities.
     
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  11. steveg700

    steveg700 Warlord

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    Well, the opera house is off the table as a generic building because of how Civ VI lays out the culture path and the staging out of different great works, and the coffee house to me is almost the same kind of gag unique as the golf course and hockey rink. Since the cultural building chain doesn't really bear a lot of tweaking, the opera house would probably make sense as a UI. While I'm not a fan of using building's as UI's, it would serve to leave museums in place (which Austria should of course have anyway), and supplement them with a way for Austria to get an early jump on musicians.

    Alternatively, we could go the route of a district replacement, the ringstrasse. It could replace a theatrical district or (perhaps more accurately) a government plaza. Either way, it would basically offer some more slots for great works. A government plaza replacement would have to offer a lot more since you only get one, and would help define Austria as a civ with less expansion focus.

    The diplomatic marriages ability to me was interesting, but always limited in practicality. CS bonuses are usually worth more than their value as another city. In Civ VI, there'd be additional concerns about loyalty-flipping. On a positive note, GS introduced diplomatic favor, so if these idea were something to implement, there would be a currency for acquiring the CS that used something other than gold.

    And that's where I would tend to place Austria in terms of interesting unique abilities, earning and using diplomatic favor in a novel way.

    The grenzer is a better idea for a UU than anything I could think of. Maybe a unique, out-of-band recon unit.
     
  12. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Warlord

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    Personally if any Civ would get the Opera House as a UI it would have to go to Italy, who were the first to have them during the Renaissance Period. Even so I would still rather them get something else and get the Opera House as another exclusive building to the Broadcast Center, but built earlier obviously at Opera and Ballet. It could house both Writing and Music Slots as opposed to the Broadcast Center which I would make it to where the Broadcast Center is the building you would want to build if you wanted to purchase Rock Bands. And Opera Houses for Italy could be unlocked earlier at Humanism.
    As for Austria I agree that the Coffee House isn't the best idea. I would liked to give them an Alpine Ski Resort built on Mountains but Gathering Storm gave that ability to everybody. I do like the idea of a unique theater district maybe called Viennese School that produces more Great Musicians.

    That ability could be used like sending an extra delegation to another Civ when you are allied maybe, not necessarily just for city-states.
     
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  13. Patine

    Patine Warlord

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    Just as long as the "Merovingians are believed to be the blood descendants of Christ" thing doesn't fit in somehow. There's no evidence AT ALL that the dynasty themselves believed that, anyone contemporary to them believed that, or that anyone prior to Dan Brown and friends in very modern times promoted the idea in any way, shape, or form.
     
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  14. Solomonic Wisdom

    Solomonic Wisdom Chieftain

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    Totally agree. That would be truly terrible. (Clovis I could be an alternate leader for the Frankish Empire and the French Empire. Charlemagne could just be the leader of the Frankish Empire.)

    I also think that the Gauls and the Goths would be good. That notwithstanding, there is already a good mod for the Gauls.
     
  15. PhoenicianGold

    PhoenicianGold Chieftain

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    Okay, so under VI's model, there are several of these which I would like, but specifically as alternate leaders for existing civs. So I did not vote for Andalusia/Cordoba, the Carolinian Empire, Kievan Rus', or Magna Germania. They deserve to be in VI, but I'm not wasting votes on them.

    Of what's remaining, the only civ I deeply care about is Bulgaria. It was a major regional power for centuries, oftentimes the largest in Eastern Europe, and debateably has a longer history than Byzantium if you count Magna Bulgaria as part of its legacy. Given the shift in VI's priorities, I can't think of a more deserving new addition anywhere on the globe.

    I would also enjoy seeing a unified Goths civ under Theoderic. And since the Italian options are kind of vague I went with what would include Vatican City State, since, by virtue of being an actual existing city state that was pivotal in freeing the other city-states from Byzantium and Germanic rule, it feels the best option for an Italy-as-represented-by-city-states vibe.

    The rest, I'm warm and cold on from day to day. Today I chose Switzerland because global bank empire feels like it could barely qualify under the "empire" standard for civ status. But then again, so could St. Patrick's Day.
     
  16. steveg700

    steveg700 Warlord

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    Are Siam and Khmer mutually exclusive, as in they compete for too many of the same cities?
     
  17. Krajzen

    Krajzen Warlord

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    Oh and my own choices were

    Italy and al-Andalus - because these two are imo by far the most globally important civs which were somehow left out of Civ series zo far, and no they were not 'already covered' by Venice and Morocco (or even worse, Rome and Arabs).

    Goths - for some reason I find the idea of Gothic civ just so badass. They also come from very underrepresented part of European history (they are certainly better idea than Huns :D ). The most succesful Migration Peoples after Franks and Anglo-Saxons. Gothic kingdoms of Iberia and Italy are also underrated...

    Armenia - if we miraculously got Georgia in game then it's definitely time for its neighbor, the oldest Christian civilization.

    Bulgaria - medieval Bulgaria is in my opinion the most impressive old civilization to ever originate from Balkans.
     
  18. Zaarin

    Zaarin My Dearest Doctor

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    Then I don't think you understand the cultural and historical significance of the coffeehouse. Did you know that coffeehouses were banned in the Ottoman Empire among other places because they were regarded as a gathering place of radicals and malcontents? Coffeehouses were a hub of cultural and political movements. The best argument against them is that they were hardly unique to Austria, and I'd actually associate them more with France or the Ottoman Empire.
     
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  19. Kimiimaro

    Kimiimaro King

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    First and foremost, Italy, be it a properly unified Civ under Vittorio Emanuele II or a Italy's Renaissance self that received "Greek treatment". Italy does feel like a great gap in the list of the most influental European civilisations, for the fact that it was the place where the Renaissance started, and not just that. A leading area of industry, science and fashion for a very long time, with countries like the Papal State, Genoese Republic or Venetian Republic being historically very powerful Italian countries themselves.

    Then, Al-Andalus, mostly because I love the amazing architecture of the Moors.

    Bohemia comes next. I admit that the fact that I'm Czech myself plays a role in this pick, but it must not be forgotten that Duchy/Kingdom of Bohemia offers a fairly good number of leaders from its long history, has several interesting chapters of history to offer, too (Emperorship of the HRE, the Hussite Wars, world class industry during Austro-Hungarian/Czechoslovak period...) and it offers itself as a good replacement for Hungary or Poland the next time.

    Armenia is another of my picks, though I'm a bit unsure whether I'd brand it European myself. Anyway, Armenian history reaches to Roman times, making it a very ancient nation. Then, there is the fact that Armenia was the first country to adopt Christianity. And seeing a bit more of Caucasian/Middle Eastern representation is never a bad thing in my eyes.

    Some Balkan Empire other than Byzantium or Greece would be nice. In the list, I picked Serbia, but I'd be equally satisfied with Bulgaria, Romania or Croatia, too.
     
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  20. Naktis

    Naktis Chieftain

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    My choices:

    1. Italy - From rennaisance era to 1900. Really culture powerhouse.
    2. Lithuania - was quite big at one time,heard they stopped golden or white horde from advancing in europe, also liked Civ5 mod of them(prob one my favorite moded civs) where they were somewhat anti-religion so that could be expanded for this game considering we have congo without a religion, a civ thats hostile to religion would be interesting to have.
    For Civ7 tho I would add Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.
    3. Kievan Rus - simple because leader Olga, the one that made revenge :)
    4. Romania - also coz of leader Vlade the Impaler.
    5. Serbia - prob most know from Slavic region.

    For Armenia is a lot of disscussion, I personally would want them , but adding Georgia makes region overcrowded to add Armenia, rather add ancient fertile crescent civ in middle east. For civ 7 tho cool choice.
     

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