Poll: what new European civs would you like to see in the future of Civ franchise?

[Patine]

Okay, so under VI's model, there are several of these which I would like, but specifically as alternate leaders for existing civs. So I did not vote for Andalusia/Cordoba, the Carolinian Empire, Kievan Rus', or Magna Germania. They deserve to be in VI, but I'm not wasting votes on them.

Of what's remaining, the only civ I deeply care about is Bulgaria. It was a major regional power for centuries, oftentimes the largest in Eastern Europe, and debateably has a longer history than Byzantium if you count Magna Bulgaria as part of its legacy. Given the shift in VI's priorities, I can't think of a more deserving new addition anywhere on the globe.

I would also enjoy seeing a unified Goths civ under Theoderic. And since the Italian options are kind of vague I went with what would include Vatican City State, since, by virtue of being an actual existing city state that was pivotal in freeing the other city-states from Byzantium and Germanic rule, it feels the best option for an Italy-as-represented-by-city-states vibe.

The rest, I'm warm and cold on from day to day. Today I chose Switzerland because global bank empire feels like it could barely qualify under the "empire" standard for civ status. But then again, so could St. Patrick's Day.

If I may ask, which Firaxis developer told you outright this "theme and model" of Civ6 you started out stating as guesses and analyses, but quickly went to stating as an absolute truth beyond what any of the rest of us "know" for sure?

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Personally if any Civ would get the Opera House as a UI it would have to go to Italy, who were the first to have them during the Renaissance Period. Even so I would still rather them get something else and get the Opera House as another exclusive building to the Broadcast Center, but built earlier obviously at Opera and Ballet. It could house both Writing and Music Slots as opposed to the Broadcast Center which I would make it to where the Broadcast Center is the building you would want to build if you wanted to purchase Rock Bands. And Opera Houses for Italy could be unlocked earlier at Humanism.
As for Austria I agree that the Coffee House isn't the best idea. I would liked to give them an Alpine Ski Resort built on Mountains but Gathering Storm gave that ability to everybody. I do like the idea of a unique theater district maybe called Viennese School that produces more Great Musicians.


That ability could be used like sending an extra delegation to another Civ when you are allied maybe, not necessarily just for city-states.

Italy could also appropriately have a museum as the unique. Or a basilica. But then, Colombia could have the Museo del Oro and Byzantium could have the Basilica, so arguing oughts about Opera Houses seems to have diminishing returns. Hell, Italy rightfully has a claim to palaces, too.

I think everyone recognizes that Italy is really difficult to design given that its strongest period was as a collection of very different city-states. I think for numerous reasons, it would be best designed as a kind of "bonus" civ, kind of how other games might add a character that is either superpowered/easy mode, and/or was designed for specific game modes or challenges. I think most consumers would not mind if Italy ended up getting more design attention than other civs since the Italian renaissance is perhaps the best-selling thing in history besides the Bible and the Beatles.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Italy could also appropriately have a museum as the unique. Or a basilica. But then, Colombia could have the Museo del Oro and Byzantium could have the Basilica, so arguing oughts about Opera Houses seems to have diminishing returns. Hell, Italy rightfully has a claim to palaces, too.

I think everyone recognizes that Italy is really difficult to design given that its strongest period was as a collection of very different city-states. I think for numerous reasons, it would be best designed as a kind of "bonus" civ, kind of how other games might add a character that is either superpowered/easy mode, and/or was designed for specific game modes or challenges. I think most consumers would not mind if Italy ended up getting more design attention than other civs since the Italian renaissance is perhaps the best-selling thing in history besides the Bible and the Beatles.

I actually got inspired to create this after seeing your thread on how to solve the Italy problem:
The Unique Ability -Birthplace of the Renaissance States- Opera Houses are also unlocked at Humanism civic (If it would become a universal building) Each city becomes a specialist city depending on the type of specialty district it constructs first after your capital:

Scientific cities universities gain +1 great Engineer points and tourism based off of campus adjacency bonuses.

Cultural cities art museums are automatically themed when completed. (A unique museum would work but I don't know how else to differentiate it from the bonus I would give this type of city.)

Religious cities gain more Holy Site tourism when Worship Building is built.

Industrial cities gain 10% extra production when producing wonders.

Trade cities gain +2 gold for shipyards. Culture is spread to other cities through trade routes.

As for a UB I think a Bottega would be interesting. It's Italian for a master's studio/workshop where the master and his apprentices/students worked. It would provide Extra GPP for writers, artists, and musicians and extra culture for the city as well as the other bonuses a workshop gives.

UU: Genoese Crossbowmen- Replaces the Crossbowmen and stronger when attacking city centers.

For the leader I would choose Cosimo de' Medici and give him a discount on gold purchases and the ability to levy his military to an ally in return for gold and diplomatic favor per turn. I would also give him the Condotierri UU Which could only be purchased with gold and replaces the knight at mercenaries and gains combat strength for each adjacent levied unit.
If Economic Victory and corporations return he could have a bonus toward founding a corporation after he builds his first bank and his corporation could spread faster than others.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

We have Poland and Russia and I'd like a South Slavic civ please. Croatia's historical impact wasn't that significant. I'd like Serbia or Bulgaria. They were both credible rivals to the Byzantine Empire for a time.
Armenia is removed enough to not make the game more eurocentric than it already is. I'd be fine with it if they replace Georgia in Civ 7.
An Italian City State like Civ V Venice would be cool, but I'd prefer non-European single city civ (maybe Singapore).
The Carolingian empire is a bit redundand when France and Germany are standard for the series, but I'd like Charlemagne as an alt-leader for both.

Honorable mention: Yugoslavia.
Yes, it was a short lived 20th century country, but as a neutral socialist state in the non-aligned movement it could have some interesting city-state or diplomacy mechanics, especially if Firaxis brings ideologies back.

 

[TahamiTsunami]

I for one am quite thrilled to see more of these polls again!

My votes were for:

- Ireland: I'd love to have this for a civ with more Celtic representation. Brian Boru would be a good choice but I'd actually like to see Ireland under Grace O'Malley mainly because a pirate queen should never be a boring choice.
- Bulgaria: Definitely a top tier choice considering how powerful they were at their height. I love how Simeon the Great looks like he's in constant disapproval of the world around him!
- Romania: Vlad the Impaler would be such a cool leader to have in game.
- Armenia: They've got quite a historical legacy and I don't think that Georgia necessarily excludes them. We can have both.
- Italy: Their artistic achievements and historical importance can't really be understated.

Other choices I'd like:

- Moors/Andalusia/Cordoba: They look like they'd be another fun choice.
- Switzerland: There's something about them being a very rich nation that can use their banks to stay neutral in wars or pay for peace that makes them very unique and fascinating to me.
- Gauls: They weren't on the list but they'd be a very strong Celtic option.

 

[Lord Lakely]

I voted for Francia, Armenia, Kievan Rus' and Bulgaria. each of these has a strong case imo. I also voted for Belgium because I live there A case can be made for Belgium's inclusion (strong industrial and economic power during the industrial revolution), Flanders not as much but I would love to see them as a mod somewhere.

Other choices I really like: Bohemia, Wallachia/Romania, Italy (in any form), Ireland, Goths, Andalusia. Though they weren't mentioned, yes, Gauls are a good option, so are the Welsh, and I would even accept Burgundy as an obscure but deserving medieval pick.

Basically we just need more variety in the portrayal of the conventional civs. Just go with Charlemagne / Aethelflaed / some Asturian king / Konrad Adenauer / Lenin for Civ7's Big European Five, k?

 

[Kimiimaro]

Basically we just need more variety in the portrayal of the conventional civs. Just go with Charlemagne / Aethelflaed / some Asturian king / Konrad Adenauer / Lenin for Civ7's Big European Five, k?

We've had Soviet Russia already, let's rather go with Muscovy led by Ivan III this time

 

[Krajzen]

I'm kind of amazed how popular Romaniaa

I also voted for Belgium because I live there A case can be made for Belgium's inclusion (strong industrial and economic power during the industrial revolution), Flanders not as much but I would love to see them as a mod somewhere.

Today I am finishing my 4-day Belgium trip (Brussels, Bruges) and I think either Belgium or Flanders would be really nice. One problem I have with Belgium is, wouldn't it feel kind od awkward to included it when it is so famously divided between two cultures and the state itself is kind of artificial construct? On another hand Flanders civ would exclude Wallons. Anyway I think Belgium has enough 19th and 20th century achievements to include it, but medieval and early modern Flanders alone was so highly advanced and culturally rich that it could be a civ on its own. I mean - Flemish painters, Bruges among the largest cities of medieval Europe, Mercator, Stevin, Ortelius, Burgundy etc.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I'm kind of amazed how popular Romaniaa

In the case of Simon Bolivar, it's definitely more about the possible iconic leader than the Civ itself. Who wouldn't want Dracula in the game?

 

[Patine]

We've had Soviet Russia already, let's rather go with Muscovy led by Ivan III this time

But his grandson was so much more of a colourful, larger-than-life, and historically well known figure.

 

[Patine]

I'm kind of amazed how popular Romaniaa


Today I am finishing my 4-day Belgium trip (Brussels, Bruges) and I think either Belgium or Flanders would be really nice. One problem I have with Belgium is, wouldn't it feel kind od awkward to included it when it is so famously divided between two cultures and the state itself is kind of artificial construct?

Yes, the treaty that created it from a bunch of "rebel southern provinces" opposing the Dutch crown, that was signed in 1839, was the self-same "scrap of paper" that German Chancellor Bethmann-Hellweg, couldn't believe Britain was going to war with them over on August 4, 1914.

 

[Kimiimaro]

But his grandson was so much more of a colourful, larger-than-life, and historically well known figure.

Truly, I know that Ivan the Terrible was one of the most influental and powerful Russian leaders. But let's admit that Ivan III the Great is definitely not a bad choice either. After all, he was the one who laid foundation for the unified Tsardom of Russia by breaking completely free of Tatar yoke and crushing Novgorod, smaller Russian duchies and managed to defeat Lithuania, too, while at the same time being successful builder and a lawgiver.

That being said, I wouldn't really mind either. A Rurikovich Tsar, be it early Russian or Muscovite is an unexplored opportunity. A late Romanov would also be something new. Even though I know that late Romanovs didn't exactly belong among the most successful Tsars, Alexander II offers himself as a good choice from this period.

 

[Zaarin]

I would even accept Burgundy as an obscure but deserving medieval pick.

If we're going to balkanize France, I think the Duchy of Brittany is the standout since it would be linguistically distinct from France. It also has a really fascinating big personality leader in Joanna of Flanders, and its uniques could reference Arthurian romance, in which Brittany played a central role.

Even though I know that late Romanovs didn't exactly belong among the most successful Tsars, Alexander II offers himself as a good choice from this period.

LUA: Reformer: Each economic policy slot in Alexander II's government grants +1 Amenity. If an enemy spy ever succeeds at the "Remove Governor" mission in Alexander II's capital, he is replaced by Alexander III; all of Russia's government slots are replaced with Dark Age slots.

 

[Kimiimaro]

LUA: Reformer: Each economic policy slot in Alexander II's government grants +1 Amenity. If an enemy spy ever succeeds at the "Remove Governor" mission in Alexander II's capital, he is replaced by Alexander III; all of Russia's government slots are replaced with Dark Age slots.

Well, at least it's good to know that Alexander III wasn't a small personality (nor person, being muscular, with wide shoulders and almost two meters tall, with the feel of a giant being strenghtened by his mighty beard), making him eligible for the leader spot at least in this direction Shame that we don't get letters from leaders though, I've read that Alexander III was known for A, writing with grammatical mistakes, B, choosing words and expressions one would not expect to hear from 19th century nobility. Reading a denunciation letter from him would be interesting

 

[steveg700]

I was thinking that some untrod ground left for a new civ to occupy would be some uniques that benefit the civilization when other civ's are at war with each other. Essentially, a civ adept at political survival through machinations, probably one adept at information warfare (i.e. espionage) and oriented towards diplomatic victory. Remember, diplomacy need not be synonymous with peacekeeping, merely serving one's own interest.

Since central Europe had oodles of land-locked little nation-states trying not to get gobbled up, it's probably a good place to start. Just need to find the right bastard.

 

[Patine]

I was thinking that some untrod ground left for a new civ to occupy would be some uniques that benefit the civilization when other civ's are at war with each other. Essentially, a civ adept at political survival through machinations, probably one adept at information warfare (i.e. espionage) and oriented towards diplomatic victory. Remember, diplomacy need not be synonymous with peacekeeping, merely serving one's own interest.

Since central Europe had oodles of land-locked little nation-states trying not to get gobbled up, it's probably a good place to start. Just need to find the right bastard.

Bismarck would have been perfect for this...

 

[Zaarin]

I was thinking that some untrod ground left for a new civ to occupy would be some uniques that benefit the civilization when other civ's are at war with each other. Essentially, a civ adept at political survival through machinations, probably one adept at information warfare (i.e. espionage) and oriented towards diplomatic victory. Remember, diplomacy need not be synonymous with peacekeeping, merely serving one's own interest.

Since central Europe had oodles of land-locked little nation-states trying not to get gobbled up, it's probably a good place to start. Just need to find the right bastard.

This has Iroquois written all over it. They survived for 200 years by playing England, France, the Dutch, and the American colonists against each other.

 

[Krajzen]

Okay so slightly too late I have realized I can still actually add some more options to the poll. Better late than never I guess... So, what countries I can add which won't end up a miserable failure like Croatia, Cossack Ukraine or Ancient Germania?
My ideas are

***Gauls - I didn't add them at first because 'technically they were covered' by Celts'. Then I changed my mind simultaneously with realizing old Celts also covered Ireland and Scotland but the 'rules have changed' and now we split those civs.
***Wales because ehh why not
***Burgundy - because ehh why not
***Cumans, Khazars, Tatars etc.

Would any other countries have chance of getting more than 0-1 votes?

 

[Phrozen]

Liechtenstein for the odd historical fact that the last time it went to war in the Franco-Prussian war it sent 80 troops. When that war ended 81 troops returned home. Apparently, they picked up an Italian defector or an Austrian attache who came back with them.

 

[Patine]

Liechtenstein for the odd historical fact that the last time it went to war in the Franco-Prussian war it sent 80 troops. When that war ended 81 troops returned home. Apparently, they picked up an Italian defector or an Austrian attache who came back with them.

San Marino - the oldest independent nation-state in it's current borders in the world (since the 5th Century), the oldest continuously extant republic, by form of government, in the world (1282), and with the oldest continuously extant military unit in the world (the Sanmarinnese Crossbow Corps, also from the late 13th Century).