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Poll: what new European civs would you like to see in the future of Civ franchise?

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by Krajzen, Aug 21, 2019.

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Choose 5 new European civs you'd like to see most

  1. Italy in united form

    27 vote(s)
    40.9%
  2. Moors/Andalusia/Cordoba

    19 vote(s)
    28.8%
  3. Charlemagne's Frankish/Carolingian Empire

    16 vote(s)
    24.2%
  4. Florence, Genoa or some other individual Italian state

    19 vote(s)
    28.8%
  5. Ireland

    16 vote(s)
    24.2%
  6. Belgium/Flanders

    5 vote(s)
    7.6%
  7. Switzerland

    8 vote(s)
    12.1%
  8. Normans

    13 vote(s)
    19.7%
  9. Goths (or other Migration Era people)

    21 vote(s)
    31.8%
  10. Bohemia (Czechs)

    18 vote(s)
    27.3%
  11. Lithuania

    11 vote(s)
    16.7%
  12. Kievan Rus (separately from Russia)

    9 vote(s)
    13.6%
  13. Cossack Ukraine

    4 vote(s)
    6.1%
  14. Romania

    13 vote(s)
    19.7%
  15. Bulgarian Empire

    18 vote(s)
    27.3%
  16. Serbia

    11 vote(s)
    16.7%
  17. Armenia (culturally 'European')

    21 vote(s)
    31.8%
  18. Croatia

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  19. Finland

    8 vote(s)
    12.1%
  20. Ancient Germania

    2 vote(s)
    3.0%
  21. Gauls

    14 vote(s)
    21.2%
  22. Burgundy

    2 vote(s)
    3.0%
  23. Wales

    5 vote(s)
    7.6%
  24. Albania (Skanderbeg)

    1 vote(s)
    1.5%
  25. Yugoslavia (Tito)

    3 vote(s)
    4.5%
  26. Individual German state (Prussia, Saxony, Bavaria, Teutons etc)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  27. Papal State

    2 vote(s)
    3.0%
  28. 'Slavs' (Samo, Great Moravia, Pagan Slavs etc)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  29. Cumans/Pechenegs/Sarmatians/Khazars etc

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. The Kingmaker

    The Kingmaker Alexander

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    Byzantium is a popular option in historical strategy games in general, so I think they have a good chance.

    For example, Paradox moved the start date from 1453 back to 1399 on one of the EU games because so many people wanted to play as the Byzantines.
     
    Boris Gudenuf and Zaarin like this.
  2. Lonecat Nekophrodite

    Lonecat Nekophrodite Chieftain

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    ^ Popular opinion? 1399? Does it means is there a turning point that Byzantine could maintain their Christian Theocracy and round up any muslims within empire to the Inquisition Office? (or is there any treaty to prevent Byzantine officials to do so or any Muslim (particularly the Turks) will mount one or two random raids as a retaliation? (just my 2c). And what if they did survive past 1453 or re equip their Legionairy with arquebuses in time. What will become of them? and will they survive secular humanism challenges of the 17th Century which none of Byzantine era clergymen are fond of?
     
  3. The Kingmaker

    The Kingmaker Alexander

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    The point is that the game Crusader Kings ends in 1453 and Europa Universalis started in that same year. CK was more character-based, while EU focused more on policies and infrastructure.

    The Byzantines were so popular that Paradox rolled EU back to a start date that encroached on CK just to give people a chance to continue to play them.
     
  4. Lonecat Nekophrodite

    Lonecat Nekophrodite Chieftain

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    oh That's nice 'what if' settings.
    In addition to Christian-based laws and cosmology that Byzantine uses. and Transitions from Latin to Greek later on. What else are a distinctions between Roma and Byzantium? Did the same ol' Roman public baths still used in Byzantine domain? did Byzantines dressed more properly than Romans?

    Oh! about Norsemen mercs that served the Byzantines as Varangians.
    1. Did they converted to Christianity later on? (and did they take Eastern Orthodoxy?)
    2. Are the Varangians classified as 'Berserkers' or 'Housecarl'?
     
  5. Patine

    Patine Warlord

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    It seems your grasp of Byzantine history is based around only a few simplistic points, and you seem uneducated beyond that. There is obviously a LOT of filling in of information and context that's needed for you first.
     
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  6. Zaarin

    Zaarin My Dearest Doctor

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    By that logic, the Ottomans should be cut since they butchered the Christian Greeks, Slavs, Georgians, Armenians, and Assyrians. Or we could be adults and acknowledge that plenty of bad things have happened in history and that if we only include the "good guys" with immaculate records we'll have an empty civ roster.
     
  7. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Warlord

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    Okay, gotta jump in even if I'm 5 pages late.
    My choices and reasons:
    1. Florence, Genoa, etc - first, because Civ needs a good, playable Mechanism for City State Civs like Renaissance Italy, Classical Greece, the Swiss Cantons, Medieval Russia, etc, and the Renaissance Italian City States were among the most influential in history. Talk about punching above your weight class: Genoa and Venice with trading posts clear across southern Russia and the Aegean, the start of modern international banking, the Explosion of art in virtually all forms . . . BUT they cannot be handled as a 'standard' Monolithic Civ, because that flattens the uniqueness among them: Florence was not Genoa, nor was Milan Venice - all unique and require a unique approach.
    2. Bohemia - because it could be the first Civ in all of the franchise with all of its Unique built around Beer. I've tasted the original Budweiser, so that alone is enough to get my vote.
    3. Kievan Russ - because Russia was and is more than Moscow or Saint Petersburg. Actually, Novgorod, the quintessential Merchant City would be my first choice for 'Alternate Russia' but Kievan Russ would be a close second.
    4. Gauls - because we need Celts in the game, and Scots Celts with Putters don't count. A culture that spread all the way from Spain to the Balkans, built roads, surveyed, and had a unique 'class' of scholars-diplomats-healers-religious leaders in the Druids just really needs a good Civ rendition.
    5. German States - specifically, Prussia, which provides both several Big Personality Leaders (The Great Elector, Friederich the Great) and, besides its well-known Military Focus, was also one of the first Bureaucratic States in Europe - several ways to go with it.

    As others have stated, I'd like to see Lithuania as part of a Polish-Lithuanian Union, the powerhouse of Eastern Europe in its day, and Charlemagne really would shine as an Alternate Leader for both France and Germany ala Eleanor. Vlad Tepes Khan, or 'Vlad the Impaler' is pretty much a one-shot Wonder for Rumania/Wallachia, while the 'Scythian Successors' like the Sarmatians, Pechenegs, etc are just that: more horse archers, another Civ that needs a different approach because they didn't build cities. Fix the problem of having a playable, competitive Civ that doesn't use the most Basic Factor in the Civ games: Cities - then we can talk about more nomadic/pastoral Civs.
     
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  8. Patine

    Patine Warlord

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    So, no Hussite Church or War Wagons - just build the whole thing on beer? Are a bit drunk at the moment?
     
  9. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Warlord

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    If Civ VI can base the entire Classical Era ranged naval unit on the Quadirime that was only used, briefly, by Carthage and Athens, and make the French UU Napoleon's Grenadiers a Pied of the Old Guard which only comprised about 1% of his army, and the Vikings get as their UU a 'standard' Melee unit for the Medieval Era of a Berserker that represented tiny psychotic percentage of any Viking force, then certainly a Bohemian UU could be based on their beer, which was much more common than any of those examples.

    You can still have the War Wagon - just strap a barrel of Budweiser on the back of it.:beer:
     
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  10. Hamilton321

    Hamilton321 Chieftain

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    Not to mention the grenadiers a pied of the old guard almost never actually saw combat in the Napoleonic wars
     
  11. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Warlord

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    Oh, they SAW lots of combat - they just didn't actually participate in it. Their real job was to be a Threat, kept ready but only to be used as a last resort - which Napoleon was rarely reduced to.
     
  12. Lonecat Nekophrodite

    Lonecat Nekophrodite Chieftain

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    ^ And they don't toss grenades do they?
    What does Firaxis thinks of UU choices especially for French? In previous Civ games they got Mousquetaire du Roi (Which actually mounted infantry and not real footsloggers, in Civ3 they even uses Garde Francaisse to represent this unit) and give them gunpowder melee class. Only in Civ6 did they switch to Imperial Guard.
    As i'm currently working on Vanilla big mod. i'm considering two options
    1. French Imperial Guard remains an addition slot
    2. French Imperial Guard replaces Grenadier
    What's your considerations? My big mod is now entering Renaissance entry with additional ethnicity looks added to.
     
  13. Krajzen

    Krajzen Warlord

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    So current results among contestants that matters are

    25 united Italy
    21 Armenia, Goths
    19 Moors/Andalusia/Cordoba
    18 individual Italian states
    17 Bohemia, Bulgarian Empire
    14 Charlemagne's whatever
    13 Ireland
    12 Gauls
    11 Normans
    10 Lithuania, Romania, Serbia
    8 Switzerland
    7 Kievan Rus, Finland
    5 Belgium/Flanders
    4 Wales
    3 Cossack Ukraine, Yugoslavia
    1 Albania, Burgundy, Germania

    I am pleasantly surprised by Armenia being do high, and shocked by Normans being so high as I expected them to fare terribly.

    Gauls are very high once we realize I added them very late to the poll.

    It's hilarious how insanely rich Switzerland loses with underdogs Romania and Serbia but I'm not surprised, Switzerland is just so damn boring (so highly developed but so boring).

    I'm also not surprised at Belgium being worst performing civ Western country seeng how it's basically artificial creation barely keeping together.
    I greatly respect Flanders but it's basically Netherlands 2.0 (not just in civ terms but IRL nationality :p ).

    It's hilarious how terrible Croatia is in this poll. I think most people don't know it actually had decently sized medieval kingdom lasting like two centuries. But yeah, something feels off about its inclusion, something is missing to bother with it.

    Countries which I didn't even bother adding to the poll: Latvia, Estonia, Belarus, Slovakia, Slovenia, Bosnia, Cyprus, Malta, Iceland, Luxembourg :p
    (although Bośnia contrary to expectations actually had medieval kingdom too)
     
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  14. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Warlord

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    What is really intriguing to me is that there are already in Civ VI, although not all updated for the latest Patch, Mods for:
    Italy
    Armenia
    Moors
    Venice (and an Italian alternate leader of Lorenzo de Medici)
    Charlemagne as an Alternate Leader for France - Germany
    Ireland
    Gauls
    Normans
    Romania
    Wales

    That's not a bad percentage of availability for the most popular/desired new European Civs!
     
  15. Terminacarnival

    Terminacarnival Chieftain

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    I will say apart from Armenia and Finland, the civs I want all occupy the space of current civ mainstays. However I love the idea of the trinity of Andalusia, the Gauls, and the Normans in favor of Spain, France, and England. It feels fresh while still representing important chunks of each Nation's history.
    Having Islamic Iberia would be a massive break from the norm.
    Vercingétorix is pretty widely considered the first hero of the French people and is a way of getting a de-blobbed Celtic civilization.
    I will admit I have a soft spot for the Normans, but I would also accept just making William I lead England with bonuses to conquering cities on other landmasses. It would be refreshing, plus it could open up opportunity for less heavily Viking based Scandinavia.

    More common leaders like Napoléon, Isabella, and Victoria can be saved for separate DLC.
     
  16. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Warlord

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  17. PhoenicianGold

    PhoenicianGold Chieftain

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    This seems a pretty fair representation of what holes could use filling. We have holding the top spots:

    * Something Italian, because the expectation was set by Venice and needs to be met, if not exceeded.
    * The most established barbarian culture (and also the most popular V mod) in the Goths (and Armenia which seems to fluctuate in popularity).
    * Something Moorish, which would probably be Morocco in VI so as not to overcrowd Iberia.
    * Slavic lion culture thing. I think Bohemia will only ever be a city-state, but Bulgaria is one of the few major regional powers I am stunned hasn't ever been in Civ.
    * The Carolingian Empire, because we now have the Angevin Empire and the question is begged.

    The rest of the options seem to have naturally been filtered out as smaller polities better represented by city-states (except maybe Kievan Rus', which I still think is a sleeper for a Russian alternate leader), which I think is proper given how VI has been designed thus far and how the roster can't go on indefinitely.

    Honestly, if we got some subset of Portugal, Bulgaria and something Italian, I would consider Europe to feel fairly complete. The Goths would be gravy.
     
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  18. Patine

    Patine Warlord

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    Oh, is Armenia a "barbarian culture" now? And by whose reckoning (other than some Ancient Greek scholars, geographers, traders, and conquerors, who called EVERYONE who didn't speak Greek as their mother tongue and wasn't a part of "Inner Hellenic" culture a "barbarian" as a matter of course)?
     
  19. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Warlord

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    Armenia is the site of the earliest archeological finds of a wine press and other 'machinery' for producing wine in quantity (around 4100 BCE, just in time for Start of Game).
    So, I would say that puts them in the running for title of the most civilized culture on the planet . . .
     
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  20. Lord Lakely

    Lord Lakely Unintentionally a feminist.

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    As someone who lives in Flanders; no, absolutely not. We do not identify with the Dutch. There is certainly enough material to create a distinctly Flemish or even Belgian Civ. The problem is leaders though. Belgium doesn't have many options; Flanders has a few but lol @ adding them.
     

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