Poll: What's the strongest Civ for humans in 5.0 alpha

[Alpakinator]

Marathon shouldn't be considered in talking about strongest civs. It warps game balance significantly. If anything, on marathon Huns turn from the strongest civ to the incomparably strongest civ, because from sieging cities triple on marathon, which combined with the same rate of city healing/turn as on standard makes farming these yields on city states and civ cities incredibly powerful. To the point you could likely finish Rationalism before entering renaissance.

That culture combined with Eki culture and "Border Blob" strategy would give unlimited production and gold. Even without border blob it's very powerful.

Ulticur production bonus per war is incredible too. Huns are by far the strongest civ because their incredible power activates very early, while Brazil insane Bandeirante yields happen only in medieval era. Same with Germanys Turbo OP Brewhouse.

The range of civ strength is very wide in VP. Some are unremarkable like Siam, Morocco or India and some are way stronger with border blob or without, like Huns, Brazil, Assyria, Mongolia. Domination is always the most reliable path for victory IMO, so that's what I'm basing my conclusions on. I know we all have different opinions here, and sorry for dunking on your favourite civs.

 

[Alpakinator]

I wonder how different things would be in a humans only game, since human beings would prioritize certain targets unlike the AI.

The strategy with Ulticur is to declare war on all civs when you build Ulticur and win with them all thx. to a very high production bonus. That works vs AI cause it's bad at war compared to humans, so yea it'd be quite a bit weaker in a MP with other humans since 7 humans players could easily overpower a skilled Hun player, while 7 AI civs can not.

 

[andersw]

The strategy with Ulticur is to declare war on all civs when you build Ulticur and win with them all thx. to a very high production bonus. That works vs AI cause it's bad at war compared to humans, so yea it'd be quite a bit weaker in a MP with other humans since 7 humans players could easily overpower a skilled Hun player, while 7 AI civs can not.

Does CS wars also count for Ulticur?
Also go for that extra large 43 civ maps to really break the game

 

[redrum68]

Does CS wars also count for Ulticur?
Also go for that extra large 43 civ maps to really break the game

No, its only wars with major civs.

 

[andersw]

No, its only wars with major civs.

Is a vassal a "major civ" in this context?

 

[Remito]

Just tried two games with Siam, until Industrial. In both cases : large map, 10 players, Emperor.

I have to say I felt it was pretty difficult. Siam is a civ that gets good bonuses (not amazing, good) from CS alliances, but has NO bonus at all to generate or keep those alliances. Hence, you need to delegate a lot of resources to that, as the AI is very competitive on CS alliances.
In early game, you can probably have only 1-3, and 4-5 by end renaissance if you don't face austria or Greece, but that remains quite a low impact. Besides, you can't really choose which bonus you get as it will depend from the type of CS you have on your continent. You may have 3 military and zero culture, or 3 religious , when what you need is culture or gold (or vice versa).
In both games I started well enough (large land to settle, steamrolling my immediate neighbour then turtling), but eventually by Industrial I was super late on Culture, and OKish on science (but in my second game I had both the 6 science NW - forgot the name - and the great coral reef, and yet was 5 tech behind a snowballing warmongering iroquois), when the leading warmongering AI arrived on my door with 25+ units. Having to invest in Envoys constantly hampered my development. Maybe I should have tried Progress and not tradition.
Regarding the UUs, the Field gun replacement is great, but arrives late, and the elephant is OK for turtling but does not keep is bonuses on upgrade...

So overall, a bit disappoiting. I will usually win 3 games out of 4 on Emperoro difficulty, but here in both cases I felt it was a lost cause by mid Inudstrial. Happy to hear any feedback or advice on what to do differently !

 

[andersw]

Just tried two games with Siam, until Industrial. In both cases : large map, 10 players, Emperor.

I have to say I felt it was pretty difficult. Siam is a civ that gets good bonuses (not amazing, good) from CS alliances, but has NO bonus at all to generate or keep those alliances. Hence, you need to delegate a lot of resources to that, as the AI is very competitive on CS alliances.
In early game, you can probably have only 1-3, and 4-5 by end renaissance if you don't face austria or Greece, but that remains quite a low impact. Besides, you can't really choose which bonus you get as it will depend from the type of CS you have on your continent. You may have 3 military and zero culture, or 3 religious , when what you need is culture or gold (or vice versa).
In both games I started well enough (large land to settle, steamrolling my immediate neighbour then turtling), but eventually by Industrial I was super late on Culture, and OKish on science (but in my second game I had both the 6 science NW - forgot the name - and the great coral reef, and yet was 5 tech behind a snowballing warmongering iroquois), when the leading warmongering AI arrived on my door with 25+ units. Having to invest in Envoys constantly hampered my development. Maybe I should have tried Progress and not tradition.
Regarding the UUs, the Field gun replacement is great, but arrives late, and the elephant is OK for turtling but does not keep is bonuses on upgrade...

So overall, a bit disappoiting. I will usually win 3 games out of 4 on Emperoro difficulty, but here in both cases I felt it was a lost cause by mid Inudstrial. Happy to hear any feedback or advice on what to do differently !

Yes its difficult to leverage, even more so if you fail roman forum (current game authority askia of all built it and gained a lot from cs allies).

 

[redrum68]

Just tried two games with Siam, until Industrial. In both cases : large map, 10 players, Emperor.

I have to say I felt it was pretty difficult. Siam is a civ that gets good bonuses (not amazing, good) from CS alliances, but has NO bonus at all to generate or keep those alliances. Hence, you need to delegate a lot of resources to that, as the AI is very competitive on CS alliances.
In early game, you can probably have only 1-3, and 4-5 by end renaissance if you don't face austria or Greece, but that remains quite a low impact. Besides, you can't really choose which bonus you get as it will depend from the type of CS you have on your continent. You may have 3 military and zero culture, or 3 religious , when what you need is culture or gold (or vice versa).
In both games I started well enough (large land to settle, steamrolling my immediate neighbour then turtling), but eventually by Industrial I was super late on Culture, and OKish on science (but in my second game I had both the 6 science NW - forgot the name - and the great coral reef, and yet was 5 tech behind a snowballing warmongering iroquois), when the leading warmongering AI arrived on my door with 25+ units. Having to invest in Envoys constantly hampered my development. Maybe I should have tried Progress and not tradition.
Regarding the UUs, the Field gun replacement is great, but arrives late, and the elephant is OK for turtling but does not keep is bonuses on upgrade...

So overall, a bit disappoiting. I will usually win 3 games out of 4 on Emperoro difficulty, but here in both cases I felt it was a lost cause by mid Inudstrial. Happy to hear any feedback or advice on what to do differently !

Siam's kit is fairly weak and the only reason I didn't rank them lower is because of their elephant UU being quite strong. That is the key IMO. You gotta set up for a good push with them as they are a bit stronger than standard knights but also don't require horses so you can spam them.