Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by justawarlord, Aug 29, 2007.
Good previous post- here is he Poll version - make your vote!
dike sucks.. i'm so tired of everyone saying how great it is, it is a great building for water maps but if your playing a regular game it forces you to put half your cities on the coast to really utilize it... and coastal cities aren't that good.
i mean after the production bonus your still making less hammers then you would if you just built a bunch of hill cities.. it's ********, i mean you can even put your hammer cities near rivers and just use the levee.
ikhanda is my favorite since after code of laws your only getting a 5 percent less maintenance then the rathaus but you get it from day one.
.. speaking of which, i'm gonna go use the dike.. just to be a hypocrite
I voted for the Dike, but the ikhanda, Rathaus and Terrace are also among the best in the game.
Me too the Dike, even if i like others as well...i love seaside cities
if you're into naval warfare, the trading post is a huge advantage. Congrats on being the first to circumnavigate, and get +2 movement on all ships
Why isn't ikhanda getting the votes? -20% mantenance immediately and -70% after CoL is a major advantage, especially with corporations. It's also great for early warring, so fits very well into its civ.
It's the Dike, no real argument. It's a stronger version of a national wonder, but on most map types you can buid it practically everywhere.
I'm surprised the Mayan Ball Court isn't one of the choices (maybe it's the one that's getting the votes for "other"?)
Extra happiness that early on isn't something to make light of; it makes the Mayans a lot more fun to play as for me.
But, in all seriousness, the Ikhanda is the best building. It's got an amazing effect without any tech requirements and is perfect fit for the Zulus.
If you vote for "other" please put in a message what it was for.
That's exactly right, it's like having Moai statues in every on the coast.
Me too. I think they are overrated. But I play Willem because his traits alone are worth playing. It's a building that requires a lot of investment (it's available with Steam Power and you need a lot of coastal cities and you need to build them in all of them for it to be really worth it.) Those coastal cities are going to have low production early in the game unless if they have hills too.
I'm throwing my vote to the Odeon a beautiful building that becomes so useful in culture victories or just culture/happiness. You won't have culture or happiness problems as the Greeks. Ever.
But I also like the Stock Exchange a lot. It has no votes?
Trading Post: The extra movement saves so much time, so much turns. Military campaigns if done partially or fully by sea get much less delayed. Less delay means more speed, more momentum, more surprise, more reinforcements, more attacks, more decisive results. Not just for island maps. All you really need is some halfway decent degree of coastline.
What about Assembly plant...probably the most important building in the late Industrial area. It is built faster with coal and an organised leader. Also allows 4 engineers instead of standard 2 available with factory.
Can the dike be used on rivers as well as coastal cities?
If so then I think some posters in this topic don't know this.
The big thing about dikes that all the dike-fans seem to be forgetting, is that they appear too late.
Dike < Ziggurat
We know this. The point is that you need coastal cities to fully take advantage of dikes. If you only have river cities, levees are enough to do the job.
Actually a good comparison is the cothon which only benefits from coastal cities too. The difference is that it's availble much, much earlier.
The dike is a good building, but it's so very late, and it comes at about the point at which water tiles really start to pale in comparison to land tiles, even for financial civs. In the early-to-mid game, sure, water tiles are very solid for financial in particular, but by steam power, they're a really weak option and probably your lowest priority tiles. It's a big help for coastal commerce cities which need a whole bunch of commerce buildings and don't have the production for it, but in actual production cities, you're probably almost as well-off running engineers and keeping the population below the health threshhold.
Don't get me wrong, it's still a great building, but I think its effects are maybe overstated, and the lateness really hurts. Plus it's expensive!
The ikhanda, on the other hand, can be built right from the get-go, and gives a massive game-long boost to commerce that must build up to some absurdly large total by the end of a given game. It lets you expend aggressively right from the start, makes a big empire much more manageable economically, and it doubles as a barracks, which is great for Zulu, especially under Nationhood (which, now that it's fixed, is Shaka's perfect civic). It's very easy to build instantly in any new city (this and the early availability are why I put it just above the Rathaus). Plus it's cheap as chips!
Rathaus, Ziggurat, Sacrificial Altar, Terrace and Madrassa are my other picks, and Mausoleum and Cothon get the Most Improved With BtS award.
Of course its the Dike, but another honorable mention should be the Baray. Very helpful for growth.
Dikes. Yeah, well, whatever. It's a nice stuff, but You know, half of the game will pass till You'll get them.
To me, Terrace is simply best. Normally, unless I'm Expansive it takes me time to build/chop these, where when You're using Incas You chop/build it, add Stonehenge to that if You wish (not always the case), and Your cities will be popping borders in no time, as well as growing like hell. Add to that religion and You can whip, whip, or in have huuge commerce cities here and there. It give nice synergy to Incas, same goes with Quechuas - free combat I for them? It's like Huayna is Industrious, Financial AND Aggressive and a lil bit creative (warriors with Combat I + cultural granaries)
Ikhanda is great too, never played with Zulu but it must be awesome to build UB half price and have 70% less maintenance
What is often neglected is that the dike allows more flexible placement of cities, you don't need to start next to a river to still get the dike extra hammers on river tiles.
Take for example the starting location for the Chinese in the Earth18civs map. You either have the choice of settling 1E for a coastal city or settling next to the river but missing out on resources. Those extra hammers aren't trivial. If they had had the dike, they would've gotten the best of both worlds.
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