# Pollution before anyone has Industrialization

Discussion in 'Civ1 - General Discussions' started by Nod2003, Nov 9, 2018.

1. ### Nod2003Chieftain

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Hi guys. I have been playing a long time and wanted to see if I could get the population to roll over. While doing that I stopped all techs before industrialization to prevent pollution. Anywho, I am at the year 2379 AD and just got pollution near a city. The French are bottled up in a small city, and they haven’t got it researched either. What is going on?

BTW, it is really hard to get 327,680,000 pop. Im pretty much tapped out here at 260m

2. ### tuga2112Warlord

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polution is not realted to tech.
you get polution by both amount of population in a city and production
you can create polution long before having indrustialisation if you got a big city witha couple of "special resource hills" with full railroads around it fairly easily.

3. ### Nod2003Chieftain

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I could have sworn the smoke stack calculation had a coefficient of 0.25 for industrialization, 0.5 for something else up to 1. Maybe I misread somewhere. Was able to stop pollution by converting forests to plains.

4. ### tuga2112Warlord

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as far as im aware. the only calculation that is directly related to tech is the trade route, where railroads and flight do affect it (although i never paid attention to it while playing)

polution as far as im aware is based on a few thresholds
these are wrong numbers but im just trying to explain with examples
theres one for population. say 25. when the city gets to 26 you get 1 chimney.
this one is affectec by having a mass transit, where the threshold is affected by 30% (im not sure if the total population used for the calculation is decresed by 30% or if the basic threshold is increade by 30%, note that the effect is very different depending which way the calculation works)
theres also shield production. where after 30 shields each shield gives a chimney.
this is affected by factories. since factories increase shield production by 50%
this wil also affected another 50% by having a power plant.
but if you use nuclear or hidro plants, i think the extra shields generated by them are "polution exempt" im sure someone with better knowledge will come along and clarify, or point out where the exact calculations are in the forum

5. ### Tristan_CEmperor

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It's two sources, pop and shields.

Smokestacks from pop is this:
Tech * Pop / 4

Where Pop is the number of figures in the city obviously
Tech = 0, 1, 2, 3, 4 respectively for the following technology benchmarks: pre-industrial, IND, AUTO, MASS, PLASTIC
So a pre-industrial civ gets no smokestacks from population, and a Plastics civ has real trouble. Mass transit puts it back to 0, I think.

Smokestacks from shields:
Shields / Buildings - 20

Shields is the exact number of shields/turn
Buildings = 1, 2, 3 respectively for the following buildings: default, hydro/nuke plant, recycling ctr
Based on this I believe that a recycling center makes it not matter whether the power plant is dirty or clean.
Fusion removes the chance of a meltdown btw.

The integer -20 means that there is a negative smokestack buffer before any pollution, pop or shields, will net positive.

6. ### PosidoniusCivherder

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As said above, the Recycling Center is your friend against pollution. Irrigate your hills to eliminate mines, don't use mountains or factories, and chop down the forests.

Are you playing the Earth map? It is physically larger but less productive than many random maps, due to vast deserts and snowfields. For large population, try a LWWY map, customized for Large land, Wet climate, Warm temps and Young planet (3 billion years). You'll get plenty of wacky results, but once in a while there's a real gem. 251 million people in current game, projections say it should top 400 million before i grab Alpha Centauri for elbow room.

7. ### MalwinChieftain

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What is wrong with pollution? Just clean it up.

8. ### Lord.L.Chieftain

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To do so you need settlers. Settlers eat food. Lesser food means lesser population.

9. ### PosidoniusCivherder

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Not always true. The Diplomat is the most powerful piece on the board. A Dip can buy a rival Settler far from your own city, then the Setty is from the city "NONE" which means that it costs you no food, no shield, and you can use it at any time to get a free citizen in one of your own sub10 cities.

At the start of this thread, Nod2003 mentions that she/he has cocooned France. There are two kinds of cocoons. A tightly wound cocoon can keep a rival civ in stasis for thousands of years, as you starve the city of both food and shields. The other kind is a loose cocoon where your ring of guard units is 2 squares from the rival. This gives the city enough resources to expand. You now have a cow in a cocoon, and you can milk it for a Setty every 15 turns. Bribe away each Setty as soon as it appears, move it out of harm's way, and you have a pollution eater which will serve you for free, until the end of time.

10. ### Lord.L.Chieftain

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What is the real reason why do you want so big population after game's former end? You don't obtain any score anymore and without Future Tech and spaceship you can't have any serious percentage.

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having fun?

12. ### The PhalanxChieftain

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In my game I haven't had pollution yet but close.I have a sentry settler on a sail for every ocean. I'm ready for anything. I also use old triremes to take caravans across oceans. But sadly my last trireme was destroyed by a barbarian frigate. That was my very first boat in the game.

13. ### The PhalanxChieftain

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The settler is for pollution ;p

14. ### Slabrifast77Chieftain

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i thought the recycling center only took out 50% of the polutione ? - Hence why i usaly been using mass transit - but will check this out

neet trick with the settler, i might wana try that

15. ### MizeWarlord

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The recycling center is supposed to reduce 'industrial pollution' by 2/3 according to Civilopedia, so it reduces only the smokestacks generated by shield production and it doesn't eliminate them completely. Cities with a big enough shield count will generate pollution after the effects of mass transit, recycling centers and, IIRC, even hydro/nuclear/Hoover dam.

16. ### Tristan_CEmperor

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Whether power is dirty or clean has no effect if there is a recycle ctr., as indicated in the formulas above

ex.
city pop 10, Plastics discovered, 45 shields/turn, recycle, nuclear, no mass transit

smokestacks displayed will be 10 + 15 - 20 = 5 smokestacks

that's 10 from population because of plastics and no transit
45 from shields, divided by 3 for recycle ctr., effect of nuclear plant overridden
20 is the natural integer buffer

17. ### The PhalanxChieftain

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The recycling center reduces 63% of pollution

18. ### The PhalanxChieftain

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Sorry, it actually reduces 67% of pollution.

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Not exactly.

20. ### The PhalanxChieftain

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what do you mean?