Pollution Question for Dan at Firaxis

[muppet]

There have been some recent posts that include discussions and questions regarding pollution. We could all just click through a few cities and count the pollution points to compare with the city stats and infrastructure, but we're not all hardcore gamers and some of us are not greatly gifted in algebraic problem solving.

I understand that the pollution points generation in civiii is different from civii. It would help much if we have a stronger overall understanding of the pollution concept in civiii. Can you provide clarifying details to what causes the pollution points and how it causes pollution (the ugly orange stuff)?

Such as:

1. Does increasing shield production (RR+mine) increase pollution? How? How much?
2. Does infrastructure (FAC/MFG PLT/AIRPORT/COAL PLT) increase pollution? How? How much?
3. Does population increase pollution? How? How much?
4. What does 1 pollution point mean? Does 10 points = 10% chance of pollution in that city radius per turn?
5. Will leaving uncleaned pollution around increase chance of more pollution or global warming? How? How much?

I am fully aware that Firaxis must be very busy answering lots of redundant emails and testing/creating improvements. Thank you Dan, in advance, and for all your other efforts on all the boards.

 

[Dan Magaha FIRAXIS]

Things are hectic as always and I'm sort of moving into a new position so it may take me a while but I'll see if I can get some clarity on this for you.

Dan

 

[Headmaster]

Airports do not produce pollution.

AFAIK pollution is caused by:

• factory
• mfg plant
• iron works
• coal plant
• high population
• nukes
  

pollution is prevented by:

• recycling center (for industrial pollution)
• mass transit (for civilian pollution)

each citizen above size 12 produces 1 pollution point unless you have built mass transit in this city. e.g. a size 16 city w/o mass transit gets 4 pollution points caused by citizens.

 

[History_Buff]

Airports do create 1 point of pollution. You can check how much pollution every thing creates in the editor.

My question is, can you set the level that citizens start to create pollution at?

 

[slothman]

Yes you can. Citizens start creating pollution at metropolis size cities. I changed metro to size 14 and size 15 and higher create pollution.

 

[msrsb]

>Yes you can. Citizens start creating pollution at metropolis size
>cities. I changed metro to size 14 and size 15 and higher create
>pollution.

Yep, but then do you lose the defensive bonus for cities over the size of 12?

Also, the Solar Plant also reduces pollution, AFAIK.

 

[Headmaster]

no, the Solar Plant doesn't reduce pollution. It's just neutral. Of course, if you had a Coal Plant and replace it by a Solar Plant you have less pollution

 

[muppet]

Never mind. I've managed to figure most of it out.

My first trip to the civiii editor. Amazing how much information is in there, and how easy it is to use. Yeah. Airports add 1 pol point. Also, Research Labs also add 1 pol point. Thanks for the advice on the metro settings. I'm going to have to experiment with my own rule sets to make the late game more fun.

 

[tropicaltlanet]

I've been playing Civ III for about a month on and off and although I first despised the pollution aspect of the game, I've come around to seeing that it is only an accurate representation of a real world model. Anyway, I just had the idea that it would be fun if instead of rampant unsuppresable pollution rates when your civ starts to kick off, why not add other more interesting consequences like eco-terrorists, which has been done before in CTP I believe ... but have them as a consequence of high pollution rates cropping up all over the place like barbarians or even in the cities and sabotaging stuff like city or terrain improvements or causing unhappiness. Since they are your citizens, they cant be x'ed out and if left alone for too long can cause unhappiness , but they can disappear if you fix your pollution problem, or (another idea) if you plant forests, which in enough quanities can reduce pollution globally, or they can be controlled if you increase military prescence in the city(s) producing pollution. I thought this might be a milder and more interesting alternative to the sometimes game-crippling penalty of pollution... or not? What does anyone think?

 

[Sparrowhawk]

The most crippling thing about pollution in my games is that the AI doesn't seem to mind that their cities have tons! I'll wind up with global warming, even if I clean up all of my pollution instantly.

 

[Ixplodestuff8]

smart pollution
here are two things i have noticed about pullution 1)pollution is smart as in they happen most often away from your railroads or roads making it harder to reach 2)pollution happens in brusts like for two or three turns you might get 2-5 pullution per turn but then there is no new pullution for a couple of turns and when it does happen again its is in a multi turn bursts - this makes pullutin harder to clean up.

 

[PaulNAdhe]

Originally posted by Sparrowhawk
The most crippling thing about pollution in my games is that the AI doesn't seem to mind that their cities have tons! I'll wind up with global warming, even if I clean up all of my pollution instantly.

AI caused pollution is a real bummer, I've given up on worrying about global warming. There's no way to control it. It would be interesting if there were a diplomatic option to demand that the other civs clean up their territory, and it has been proposed on other threads here.

Since I can't end global warming, I only worry about pollution because it cripples production in my city squares.

 

[Dralix]

Originally posted by Sparrowhawk
The most crippling thing about pollution in my games is that the AI doesn't seem to mind that their cities have tons! I'll wind up with global warming, even if I clean up all of my pollution instantly.

I vaguely recall reading somewhere (either manual or strategy guide) that global warming has nothing to do with polluted squares, unlike previous Civ games. Can anyone confirm/deny this?

 

[muppet]

Sparrowhawk isn't complaining about the AI not cleaning up polluted squares. The AI does a SPECTACULAR job of cleaning up polluted squares.

The problem is that the AI does not do a good job of reducing pollution (from buildings or population). This contributes to global warming no matter how much the player tries to avoid it.

I've experienced it myself. Spectacular, nearly totally pollution free empire covering 1/4 of the world, and I couldn't prevent global warming because the AI didn't care.

 

[PaulNAdhe]

If the AI would build the Mass Transit and Recycling improvements in their cities it would decrease the global warming somewhat.

But, I wonder how much effect it would ultimately have. By the time those improvements come along I'm usually the largest civ by far with most of the land mass and a huge population base.

I'm putting Mass Transit & Recycling in all my cities, and that no doubt decreases overall global warming. But, each remaining AI civ usually has only a handful of cities over 12, how much more pollution are they generating than what I'm not able to eliminate even with my improvements?

It's an interesting discussion. I'd like to see some kind of diplomatic option. Maybe a grant to an AI civ that must be used for Mass Transit & Recycling, I'm usually flush with GP by then and buying everything in my queues.

 

[Magnus]

You know, later in the game, omce I have spies, I look at just how many workers the AI civs have and it is pathetic, like once they finish railroading they only keep a few workers on hand, so their pollution goes essentially unchecked. I have gone so far as to send a crew into neighboring states (after securing ROP, we don't 'walk' )) and cleaning up their messes!

 

[Dralix]

Originally posted by muppet

The problem is that the AI does not do a good job of reducing pollution (from buildings or population). This contributes to global warming no matter how much the player tries to avoid it.

Well, now that I understand the problem, the solution is simple. In order to reduce the AI's contribution to global warming, it is imperative to destroy all their polluting improvements or capture their cities and build mass transit/recycling centres.