1. We have added the ability to collapse/expand forum categories and widgets on forum home.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Photobucket has changed its policy concerning hotlinking images and now requires an account with a $399.00 annual fee to allow hotlink. More information is available at: this link.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. All Civ avatars are brought back and available for selection in the Avatar Gallery! There are 945 avatars total.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. To make the site more secure, we have installed SSL certificates and enabled HTTPS for both the main site and forums.
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Civ6 is released! Order now! (Amazon US | Amazon UK | Amazon CA | Amazon DE | Amazon FR)
    Dismiss Notice
  6. Dismiss Notice
  7. Forum account upgrades are available for ad-free browsing.
    Dismiss Notice

PolyCast Episode 281: "Shouting Into the Void"

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by DanQ, May 20, 2017.

  1. DanQ

    DanQ Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2000
    Messages:
    4,336
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Where your screams may or may not be heard. The two-hundred-and-eighty-second episode of PolyCast, "Shouting Into the Void", features regular co-hosts Daniel "DanQ" Quick, Stephanie "Makahlua", Philip "TheMeInTeam" Bellew and "MadDjinn" with returning guest co-host David "Hans Lemurson" Skold. It carries a runtime of 59m59s.

    The summary of topics is as follows:

    - 02m04s | News
    An up-and-coming announcement for Civilization VI is generally, seemingly unexpectedly, met with a positive reception from the community... and some expected divergent, widespread speculation.
    - 11m09s | Senate
    The second trio of 'As and Against' CivVI civilization rundowns: China, Egypt (17m19s) and England (24m58s).
    - 31m55s | Miscellaneous
    Steps forward and steps still to take as the first Civilization VI eSports tournament undertaking is examined following its conclusion.
    - 47m54s | Open Mic
    Drawing the line between too much and not enough (constructive) criticism for CivVI following a suggestion that the show doesn't have enough, and answering an email asking about "which civs and playstyle are best for each play speed" in the game (51m41s).

    - Intro/Outro | Miscellaneous
    Unconventional beginning, second in separation and questionable recollection.

    PolyCast is a bi-weekly audio production recording live every other Saturday throughout the year, in an ongoing effort to give the Civilization community an interactive voice; sibling show ModCast focuses on Civ modding, TurnCast on Civ multiplay.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2017
    Uberfrog likes this.
  2. Hans Lemurson

    Hans Lemurson Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2006
    Messages:
    467
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    Gosh, I sure love the sound of my own voice!
     
    Victoria likes this.
  3. DanQ

    DanQ Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2000
    Messages:
    4,336
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    :D -- hope you enjoyed the post-produced version. Thanks for being back on the show!
     
  4. Magma_Dragoon

    Magma_Dragoon Reploid

    Joined:
    May 10, 2008
    Messages:
    2,318
    I know the things I mentioned were apparent at release and have already been brought up, I was trying to express incredulity about the guy who said the show has too much griping
     
  5. DanQ

    DanQ Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2000
    Messages:
    4,336
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    We appreciate the clarification.

    Thanks for continuing to be apart of the show's audience. :)
     
  6. bcaiko

    bcaiko Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 9, 2011
    Messages:
    1,409
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    You broke my 2nd place finish on co-host gaps! :cry::cry::cry:
     
  7. DanQ

    DanQ Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2000
    Messages:
    4,336
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    When you were last on the show, Brandon, you were fifth at that point.

    Regardless of where you are in the rankings now or in the future, though, you're still part of PolyCast's 100+ Episode club: at least 100 episodes between guest appearances. :)
     
  8. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    Messages:
    4,660
    I thought I would listen to another one as it was advertised here. A couple of points

    The moment you start talking about a non domination discussion it is dropped. When it came to British Museums groooan lets drop it, its not combat and its dropped. Wow... kill your audience or what?

    As an English player I was shocked by the lack of understanding of England, for example early game when they sit on the edge of a continent and just what did you discuss about sea dogs? You did not discuss the power triangle with a CH at a river mouth or shipyards with adjacency making +14 production mid game.

    I never hear some of the more advanced considerations like a crouching tiger ignores support bonuses or the extra move points from chariots giving better flanking or that great walls are BIG culture and gold makers, instead you talked defense.... there seems to be a credibility gap there.

    I would have liked a guest to have a spot, something they want to discuss something that makes it interesting for them to be there.

    There are good things in there and great humor and interesting news but it just feels frustrating at times and drifts. That it lacks detail and it shows a lack of understanding or care in areas that must affect your listening audience negatively. Certainly one of them.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2017
    Abraxis likes this.
  9. bcaiko

    bcaiko Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 9, 2011
    Messages:
    1,409
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Huh. I recall hearing second. Must've been my imagination. Oh, Dan - why must you destroy my dreams, too? :p

    I'll see you all next time Lisa replaces Mad!
     
  10. MadDjinn

    MadDjinn Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,551
    Sorry, I had to step out to deal with contractors for my house when they got into those sections. So I had to leave them alone to their own devices :mischief:
     
  11. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    Messages:
    4,660
    NP, I hope you did not take the feedback badly, it would be good to have a regular update that was a little bit better.

    There also was consensus that trade routes should always be internal but it is not based on sound facts IMO.
    Just take this post as an example - gold v production
    Not the start of the post, just the question above the picture
     
  12. Abraxis

    Abraxis Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2008
    Messages:
    1,218
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    I had the exact same thoughts about their evaluation of Egypt. It's like you guys just went to the wiki 5 minutes before the show to read their abilities and talked about the first thing that came to mind. Even those who've played Egypt once would probably have been cocking an eyebrow.

    Having played literally hundreds of hours of Egypt, I remember feeling the ulcers forming as I listened, later repressing the urge to meticulously correct every misrepresentation and fill in every omission.

    Not that I'm in any position of authority, I produce nothing of value on the topic either, but what you bring to a topic raises the value of the discussion and the value of the production as a result. If no one of you has ever played Egypt, what value does a discussion on Egypt bring? It felt to me like just trying to fill silence and that ya'll were eager to move on to the next topic.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2017
    Victoria likes this.
  13. MadDjinn

    MadDjinn Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,551
    Well, if you've been watching my England LP, you know that I would definitely disagree on the internal trade route thing. I only focus on those for wonders or districts, else, more gold is better.
     
    Victoria likes this.
  14. DanQ

    DanQ Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2000
    Messages:
    4,336
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    It was never said that no panelist had ever played Egypt in Civilization VI, only one panelist. There was no consensus that trade routes should always be internal but rather one panelist reiterating that that is their position; admittedly no other panelist expressly contested that in this instance, though it has been in the past. Many of the panelists' playstyles are rooted in Domination which, when not specifically stated no doubt comes across otherwise: we speak first and foremost to the perspective that we have more/most experience with. We are always trying to acknowledge and incorporate playstyles other than our primary into our conversations; even where we may not cover those aspects completely, we never do so out of disrespect or dismissal. That it came across that way with respect at any point was and is not intentional: that there was, and is, much about England for example that is Domination-based (or otherwise beneficial) most likely led to less attention being given to its Museum Unique Building.

    We always welcome our audience to raise strategic elements that we overlook and/or different perspectives on those that we do not; to have individuals do so not only better enables us to engage with our listener base, and by extension the Civ community, but also challenge us as players to think critically about our own positions. We may not always agree on points raised -- just as we don't always agree with one another on the show -- but when they are raised constructively as here, they are appreciated and considered.
     
  15. Abraxis

    Abraxis Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2008
    Messages:
    1,218
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Well that was diplomatic; now I feel bad. I hope you know I was joking about the ulcers. :sad:

    You can't expect people to just be able to speak outside their experience, and I don't think any of us wants that. But there does seem to be an odd kind of double standard going on. If I were to post somewhere that, as a culture or score focused player, I thought Scythia wasn't a strong choice and her only ability worth focusing on was the Kurgan, I'd never hear the end of it.

    It's okay to treat civs as though they are only as good as their Maryannu rush or the timing attack of whatever UU they have. Maybe it's the fault of Firaxis for not properly balancing the incentives for war an peace? Or just a prevailing attitude a few of us don't align with, I don't know.

    As far as Egypt specifically though, her bonuses -beyond the if necessary aggressive expansion phase in the ancient and a little into classical- everything heavily incentivizes cooperation with the AI in order to maintain your strong trade routes and take advantage of her very strong tourism from shaping the appeal of your land to fit national parks and seaside resorts wherever you want with sphinxes, to buying up all the great works at a discount from your allies and sticking them into your cheap wonders and districts, everything is focused to that end. Can she deviate, sure, and she's much more flexible than many others, but still, even her loading description describes her this way, and it would be easy to argue that domination should be the last victory she aught to focus on and be evaluated by. Heck she may even the the worst domination civ considering Maryannu uniquely upgrade to crossbowmen to defend your cities instead of knights to go on the offensive.

    It seems odd to just take it for granted that domination be the point of reference from which you'd want to evaluate her abilities even if that is your preferred play-style. Just as it would be odd to judge Scythia or Aztec by their ability to pursue culture victories. When we discuss them, we do so from the point of view of taking advantage of their obvious military strengths. Even if it did mean stepping outside our area of experience, no one would ever pass over those things.
    Whether it's the game's design we have to blame or how we're perceiving and using it. Whether it's intentional or not. Whether it's something that may change, or something they will embrace. I think these are the questions that drive my interest in this topic.

    It seems clear that there is a disconnect between the intended use and the actual use, and I have to wonder how and if that may affect the direction of development.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2017
    Photi likes this.
  16. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    Messages:
    4,660
    NP, very few negative things in this world are intentional but we need intent to keep those things away.
     
    Photi likes this.
  17. Whiterussian

    Whiterussian Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 8, 2007
    Messages:
    99
    First of all i liked the show, and great, entertaining, guest! Please have him back again.

    As for Victorias "Issue". I often also think this constant "just kill it, just Nuke it, just conquer verything" attitude ist getting a bit old and boring.
    At the other hand, i have to addmit it actually is the only reasonable way to play the game. I think every thing else, (Culture, Religion, Science) is really really boring. Which is more of a problem with Civ than Polycast. And also why i personally hardly play Civ anymore as Domination was killed for me with the stupid unit movement (aka 1upt).

    But yes for Polycast i also think it would make the show more interesting, if you would seriously talk about other things than just Domination. As you can see in the couple posts above, there is something to talk about.

    Just my thoughts in the hope to help improve
     
    Victoria likes this.
  18. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    Messages:
    4,660
    To have a discussion about how secondary agendas are ruining the Dom game would be interesting as one example which is on track but would require the speakers to have good understanding of the game.
     
  19. DanQ

    DanQ Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2000
    Messages:
    4,336
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    As biased as I am in saying this, I believe we (the regular PolyCast panelists) have a good understanding of Civilization VI. As noted I recognize that on this episode we could have incorporated non-Domination strategies more thoroughly, which is something we have routinely done for more than ten years spanning back to CivIV. In recording Episode 282 this past Saturday, feedback in this thread was very much on our minds; we not only discussed it directly, but more critically re-focused our attentiveness to bring forward even more strategies in discussing specific civilizations.
     
    ExtremeGardens, Uberfrog and Photi like this.

Share This Page