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PolyCast episode 366: Super Secret Vampires!

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by megabearsfan, Jul 26, 2020.

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  1. megabearsfan

    megabearsfan Prince

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    The three hundred-and-sixty-sixth episode of PolyCast, “Super Secret Vampires!“ is now available for streaming on polycast.civfanatics.com. This episode features regular co-hosts
    CanusAlbinus, Stephanie “Makahlua”, and Jason “MegaBearsFan” Grade. Topics for this episode include:

    News
    - 00h03m00s | Ethiopia patch notes

    Forum Talk
    - 00h38m00s | Episode 364 feedback, game industry trends, and Canus and MegaBearsFan really enjoy Christopher Tin's albums.
    - 00h48m00s | Has anyone found a workable Bermuda Triangle?
    - 00h53m45s | How balanced are the civs?
    - 01h05m00s | Are Urban Defenses too strong?

    PolyCast is a bi-weekly audio production recording live every other Saturday at 12 Noon US Eastern Time throughout the year, in an ongoing effort to give the Civilization community an interactive voice; sibling show ModCast focuses on Civ modding.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2020
    Uberfrog likes this.
  2. kaspergm

    kaspergm Deity

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    Just reposting this from the funny screenshots thread: Harald found a workable Bermuda Triangle ... but decided it would be cheating to take advantage of it.
    Spoiler :

    :hammer2:
     
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  3. Furycrab

    Furycrab King

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    I think it's hard to disagree that something is wrong with Wall math. I'm not a designer, but player feedback wise, the cities should hit for a lot less on their own, especially when you factor that this is a number that already have cards and a governor dedicated to making it shoot harder. However that's also a bit contingent on the fact that you can hide units (and a boat) that can shoot safely, so there's definitely a lot of directions it could be changed. The walls, especially after urbanization, could also be a little less tough.

    Not sure what exactly you change... but I would like for it to be less reliant on the flimsy support units the AI never really uses properly (Ram/Siege Towers/Balloons), but I'd love to see more done with the Siege mechanic. Like it's not the fights where both sides have roughly even numbers where Walls truly worry me, it's when they have 15 units to your 3, the AI completely surrounds, and you just sit there either killing all the Ranged or all the Melee units until it's impossible for them to capture.
     
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  4. Uberfrog

    Uberfrog Deity

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    Another Christopher Tin fan here! I am really looking forward to the new album.
     
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  5. megabearsfan

    megabearsfan Prince

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    We totally missed talking about the fact that there are policy cards and a governor specifically designed to buff city defense. That is a great point! I honestly don't recall if I've ever used those policies because city bombardment is so strong on its own that I don't think I've ever felt like I've needed the extra city defense. In fact, I think the only time that I would likely feel I would need such a policy is if I'm on the wrong end of a Sumerian War Cart rush or something similar. But the policies don't help with that because it would be so early in the game that the policy isn't unlocked yet. :/
    But yes, if you're having trouble defending against sieges, there are policies and governors designed for that. The solution should not have been to globally buff walls.

    I think there's a number of fairly simple things that could be done:

    Longer range: Giving all siege weapons 3 range, but making them really weak against units would allow them to fire from beyond the range of the district, unless the district also has a siege weapon inside. That way, the defender would have to send unit(s) into the field to attack the siege weapon. The weaker strength vs units would hopefully ensure that siege weapons don't become OP for uses other than the intended city sieges.

    Military Engineers: I've suggested in the past that Military Engineers should be available sooner, and have the ability to spend a charge to construct a siege weapon as a static "improvement" on the tile that just automatically does damage to the walls of the enemy city. This would prevent the city from damaging the siege unit with bombardment, and would similarly require sending out a unit to "pillage" the siege weapon. As I understand history, building the siege weapon on the spot is also more in-line with how catapults and trebuchets were historically used. Another less drastic option would be to allow Military Engineers to spend a charge to repair any adjacent damaged siege unit (similar to what a Guru does for religious units).

    Collateral damage: Another simple change would be for siege units to deal collateral damage (as they did in Civ IV). So the siege weapon damages the city walls and any enemy units within the district. This would make the combo of walls and garrisoned ranged unit less dominant. Perhaps Frigates and Battleships should similarly deal collateral damage against cities.

    Starve out the city: One could also argue that if you put the city under "siege" and block the city from working food tiles, it should automatically surrender when it runs out of food and is forced to suffer starvation. This would also be more in-line with how I understand city sieges to have actually worked in real history. If you can't topple the walls, then you starve the enemy out. An similar approach would maybe be that cities under siege lose loyalty when they get to starvation, and then flip to the attacker's control when loyalty reaches zero. This would allow the defender to use governors, policies, and other means to help the city hold out long enough to bring reinforcing units and hopefully break the siege.

    Bombardment scaling: Or Firaxis could make attack strength of cities only scale up if there is actually a military unit inside the walls. Or just not scale up combat strength of cities at all so that you are entirely dependent on the level of walls you've built and the strength of the defending unit inside the city.

    Parity between siege units and walls: Or they could add a "Classical" tier of walls (unlocked with Engineering, perhaps?). This way, Ancient Walls would be used to defend against Warrior / Archer rushes, but would not hold up to Catapults. Having a medieval siege weapon (Tebuchet) that can withstand a bombard or two from medieval walls would also help. It really does baffle me that the game includes a Medieval Wall, but not a medieval siege weapon for that wall to counter.

    There's lots of options here. It's just a matter of picking the one that makes the most sense within the game's mechanics and that maintains relative balance of other units.
     
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  6. CanusAlbinus

    CanusAlbinus Chieftain

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    I just realized my name is missing from the post (after posting it to the main page a few days ago, too). Whoops!
     
  7. megabearsfan

    megabearsfan Prince

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    My mistake Canus. I've updated the OP to include your name. I must've copy-pasted the content from one of the episodes in which you were absent.
     

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