Let's do this again then: 4, 15, 26: Rome got invaded to hell in their later days, doesn't mean that they are all of a suddenly unimportant. 9: Whilst the Holy Roman Empire was built around a religion it of itself was of massive influence to medieval Europe and of far more influence than Canada could ever be to History. 20. Canadians, Americans... What's the difference? 21. Canadians? The displaced child of England and France. Simply an extension by your own logic. 23. ...but entirely different. Again, what's the point of having Canada by your logic as we have represented North America with the Yankies, and your culture is an evolved form of English and French with a little bit of Yanky thrown in for flavour. 28. Here you show your true ignorance for pre-Canadian History quite well, well that and the Rome Conquered comments, but I'll let than one slide. If you don't know about Poland-Lithuanian I suggest you stop arguing for the inclusion of Canada, who have no historical significance and no stand along status as an "Empire" or "Civilization". 29. One of the lesser names there, but they have a very significant point in history to their name. The Vandals were a Germanic tribe that were the ones to sack Rome, hence leading to the word "Vandalism". I guess we should chuck Rome out on the street though because by your logic these guys conquered Rome and were hence far more important to history. 31. Uh... What? The Scots did not come from the Saxons and Great Britain was the Union of England (in the game) with Scotland. Scotland has an important history for Europe and are far more important than say... I don't know, Canada?! At least they had an impact on history that can be found without finding random inventions or quoting a couple of Nobel Prize winners (which it would be fair to point out is no measure of a "Civilization", but rather one or two individuals since its inception). Really, if you want to ask for Canada, you can't question Scotland. 32. Again with this arguement. The Celts would be a simple way of grouping a lot of groups which are historically important within Europe into a single group rather than having another 30 odd groups. You could have argued Gaul here, but hey... I'd also point out that Rome never "conquered" the Celts as such as they still had settlements throughout Britain that they never even dreamed of touching, but hey. When you're blinded by bias toward your own nation you get like this and ignorant of the rest of the world. 36. Oh wow! You're kidding right? That is one of the most offensive things I've ever heard. Really, that's worse than just saying that Canada is just America's hat! About a million times worse. Read it up mate! 40. Wales is a bit of a stretch, but still worth something. I'd probably just chuck them in with the Celts in truth. 42. Canada, America, England, Australia, New Zealand... Subcultures? Really, these were seperate entities, and just because they aren't in our Western historical records as great powers means nothing. They were as significant in the region as many of the "Civilizations" in the game currently and in previous versions. The differences between them were far greater than that simply between Canada, America, Australia etc. 43. Alexander the Great was actually Macedonian and you would probably be given death threads for saying that kind of biased misinformed rubbish in Macedonia. Really, you're worse than an American Stereotype with this sort of thing! 44. Uh... what? I'm just going to guess that you have no idea where Brunei is then. Because I can tell you know that you're more than the length of Canada off. 45. Well we have neither Vikings or Norse, and I was actually using the Danes as a placeholder when I made a list of numbers. Also, the kingdom of Denmark is far more than that and you are only continuing to develope an argument that by mere logic excludes Canada from being a "Civilization" in your own sense. I'd also Stress to point out that another member of the G8 is also not represented and in fact if you look at the 20 largest modern Economic Powers (also known as the G20) some 11 of them are not represented... The reason being that a differentiation is made between a Civilization and a modern state and whilst Canada is a modern state (and only in the G8 because of the politics of NATO) it is certainly not a "Civilization" or "Empire" as the Civs in the game should be. This is clearly for the reasons you yourself have previous mentioned as Canada: 1. Does not have its own independant history and Culture, as it is effectively an offshoot of England and France and in more recent times as an extension of America. Whilst this seems like an unfair statement if you read your own comments you'll see why I'm wording it as this. 2. North America is already well covered in terms of Civs with 3, especially considering the population of the region, the historical significance (which centres almost purely around the US) and other factors. 3. All of the states that may be considered to be connected to Canada are in the game hence it would not be a move that would diversify the game. ...and the others mentioned. Whilst you cite famous Canadians and Canadian inventions this must be put in context, if I were to poll a group of people for who was more significant culturally and historically most people would pick figures from the Civilization on the list well before any Canadian anyhow. The worst part of it all is that you claim people's ignorance against Canada whilst ignoring the rest of the World. You even mentioned the dates of when Canada "became a nation" so to speak, but I was more concerned about when Canada was coming of age, which is something I thought that you yourself you have found more significant. The image of the modern Canada came about in the decades following WWII, though you as a Canadian should now all about that. Now, I have a fun game. Let's play the who would be better, Australia or Canada game: GDP per Capita: Canada ~$45,700 / Australia - $54,500 GDP Gross: Canada - $1.556 Trillion / Australia - $1.219 billion HDI: Canada - 0.888 / Australia - 0.937 Population: Canada - 34,400,000 / Australia - 22,600,000 Not a whole lot to choose between there. Then chuck into that that Australia is a major player within their region whilst many people see Canada as America's Hat. Australia is ranked as one of the best countries to live in, rated second in terms of HDI. Australia is also well known for its strong economy as well as its unique landscapes. Not to mention Australia's importance in the modern World in terms of sport, Australia being the best Nation in the World at two of the 5 biggest sports in the World and were one of the best some 10 years ago at another of the 5, not to mention being a significant force in the World's largest sport in their own region. Being a major player in the Olympics and being known for their capability for hosting World Events. And you know what, I think neither you be in it, because they're not Civilizations, they are just not! They are both young nations that came out of Colonies of other nations. Maybe in another 100-200 years, maybe if they add another 20-30 Civs on, but right now it would just be silly to add either! If you want to get back to inventions by the way Australia has things like prepaid postage, the refrigirator (not too many people have one of them eh?), Torpedos, Electric Drills, Sunscreen... There's an interesting story about Powered flight, Tanks, Utes, Pacemakers, Solar hot water, Blackbox flight recorders, plastic lenses, Digital Samplers (the basis of Hip Hop), Imax, Scram Jets... The list is huge! Also, I rate Australia's inventions better, but that might just be my Aussie bias coming through, though it doesn't reak as much as the Canadian bias here at the moment. Again, does this mean that Australia should be in... NO! All it means is that Australia did some important things in their short history so far. They are so many more Civs worth being in first. The main ones are: Carthage Korea Byzantium Zulu Sumeria Mali Maya Vikings Portugal Netherlands Khmer Hapsburg Poland-Lithuania Celts or something like the Gauls Tibet Indus Israel This is again in no specific order. If I had to pick two new ones I'd go for Carthage and Korea. Again, these are all more important than Canada, and in fact pretty much all on the list of 44 are. Also, I'd again point out that I liked the diversity that Polynesia gives the game, good work guys, keep up the awesome DLC! Moderator Action: Trolling is not allowed here.