Pope Chokonut the Indifferent

[Ozbenno]

Now that team Choknut has risen above the wooden spoon into mid table mediocrity, its time to take the next step. So we've used the transfer window to stock up on some new talent and we're going to have a stab at a practice game.

Game: Beyond the Sword 3.17
Leader: ???
Opponents: Random
Difficulty: Monarch
Map: Something that needs boats (for Ralph)
Size: Standard
Speed: Normal
Victory: All Enabled but we want to become Pope.

Let's go by the DM SG Etiquette (see spoiler).

Spoiler :

Alpha: Quality of report outweighs quality of play. This is a medium of entertainment and our reason for being here is to have fun. Sure, winning can be fun, but a boring win pretty much sucks.

Bravo: An auto-log dump does not count as a turn report. Unless unusual circumstances prevent, a turn report should have more player-generated content than auto-log content. Screen shots of major events are expected. Shots of the F9 screens are nice too, once in a while, possibly even an aerial shot of the empire in early years.

Charlie: Punctuality is encouraged. Standard time frame is for a player to post a "got it" within 24 hours of the time the previous player posted the save, then play within 48 hours of his "got it" post. Waiting 47 hours to ask for a skip is lame. You might find yourself "skipped" the next time, as well. Skips and swaps are fine, just try to arrange them sooner, rather than later.

Delta: Being a better player than others does not give you the right to belittle anyone or anyone's decisions.

1. Sometimes other people are going to disagree with you on the major decisions. Get used to the idea.
2. Trash talk, when presented humorously, is encouraged. This is a fine line, though. If you lack a command of either humor or English, you might want to consider waiting until the group gets to know you before you let slip the dogs trash talk.

Echo: Major game decisions should generally be arrived at via group concensus.

1. If most or all of the team disagrees with you, either argue your case better, or do it their way. Do NOT just blow them off and do it your way because it's your turn.
2. However, if the team is (fairly) evenly split, the decision is yours. Do it your way, and make it clear why.
3. Similarly, if it's split and someone else's turn, don't whine when they do it their way instead of yours.
4. In extraordinary situations, sometimes an opportunity presents itself that the group didn't foresee. If the consequences of said opportunity weigh greatly, the player is encouraged to stop, write a report up to that point, and ask the group to discuss.
5. Major decisions include, but are not limited to, war declarations, peace declarations, city placement, and civics or religion swaps. In some cases, major tech trades, wonder builds, great person actions, or tech paths are "major" enough to warrant significant discussion.

Foxtrot: Overruling your predecessor's builds and tech choices after hammers/beakers have been invested can be rude. If your reasoning is sound, make the switch, but please state both the action and the rationale in your report.

Golf: Automation is generally fine, when well documented.

1. When automating workers, it is an absolute MUST that you set your game options to disallow automated worker chopping and to keep previous improvements.
2. Auto-explore is generally inefficient and problematic. Particularly during wartime when they'll pillage enemy improvements. If you automate exploration, it is your responsibility to remind the group of this when war breaks out.
3. Turning on the auto governor in a city is fine, but please explain your reasoning. If you automate the governor to prevent growth, it is your responsibility to remind the group of this when the time arrives that the city can again grow.
4. Sending units on go-to routes that last beyond your set is acceptable if you're sending troops to rally point, or if you otherwise inform your teammates.
5. A good idea is to cancel automation at the end of your set. According to Ruff, you can cancel all worker actions at once by selecting a single worker, holding down ALT, then clicking on cancel.

Hotel: Fortifying great people, at any time, is a jackassed thing to do. Seriously, how hard is it to press the space bar a few times?

India: Sign spamming is rude. In certain instances, signs can be helpful reminders. Too many signs, however, are easily ignored. If you placed a sign, it is your responsibility to erase it once that sign is obsolete.

Juliet: Leniency against ettiquette infractions will be given to those whose prior play has reflected the spirit of these rules. In other words, guys I've played with for two years get a little more latitude than guy I just met.

Our main problem has been the lack of discussion regarding tactics, so an AP victory is a good practice game as it isn't a terribly hard victory condition but does require a high degree of co-ordination and tactics to get there. Here's a good thread that can describe some of the mechanics of the win.

First thing to decide is who to play and what sort of map? We should play a seas based map, requiring Optics for an added twist. So check in, post your thoughts on the game setup (who wants Tokogawa as an opponent?) and we'll get going.

Roster (in no particular order):
Ozbenno
McArine
Mighty Dwaarf
cubbiesin08
mc-red
GreyFox
ianw1610
Ralph_Jackson (off skiing - will check back later)

 

[mc-red]

Checking in.
Some prelim thoughts. The ultimate goal of this is to continue to improve our SGOTM play next time round a bit more.
The last SGOTM was a monarch game so is it likely that next SGOTM might be Emperor/+ or does it not work that way?
I usually play monarch but just wanted to see what you guys think before we fire up a start.
The SGOTMs tend to have a twist so do we want to set the table so that there is some built in impedement. i.e. a good opponent on the other continent or a poor choice for our own leader?
I guess the counter view would be to really nail down the mechanics of a religious win and set things up with that in mind.

 

[Ozbenno]

I think we don't worry about what the next SGOTM might be and just concentrate on developing some good SG habits

If we want to play the proper part of Pope, Charlemange and Justinian might be the best choices.

The two best ways to get Theology first in an AP game are to Oracle it or bulb it from a GP (after building Stonehenge and/or Oracle). If we use the second route, an Industrious civ would be best (Roosevelt, Bismark or Huayna maybe).

EDIT: GF - I noticed ruff uses a slightly different set of DM rules and obviously we can't check the original, do you know which is more recent

 

[mc-red]

BTW welcome to the new members:GreyFox; ianw1610; Ralph_Jackson.
Good to have a full roster.

Oz: I am ok with any choice. Will vote for Justinian for the role play angle and because have never played as him.

 

[r_rolo1]

lurker's comment: This time there was fierce competition for the wooden spoon .... Too bad you couldn't get it

 

[GreyFox]

Signing in

Hello to players I have never met before: mc-red, cubbie, and ianw. :wave:

@Ozzy: No idea ... the set of etiquette was changed so many times by pholky which we generally ignore him such that no one actually knows which is the latest ...

Regarding choice of leader, doesn't really matter to me. But I doubt I have played as Justinian as well ....

Are we going to use the HoF mod as this is afterall a practice for SGOTM which will require it?

 

[cubbiesin08]

Checking in.

I read the thread you referenced and wow, those are some fast finishes. Is our plan to try and do this as fast as possible or are we not as concerned about that? I definitely know that we are going to try and work on communication and developing team strategies.

I'm fine with us choosing a leader or taking a random leader as well. I'm also fine with the level. I hate all boat type maps so go with something someone else recommends.

When doing this - do you take whatever start comes up or do you regenerate the start until you get one that seems good (awesome)?

 

[cubbiesin08]

Just read comments about Justin - that would be fine.

Hello to the new players!

 

[ianw1610]

Checking in...

I'm pleased to be joining the team - thanks very much to Ozbenno for inviting me!

As a brief introduction, I'm Ian, from the UK, of no specified age (!) I live in Newcastle, but I'm a big fan of Everton FC. As a job, I work in Risk Analysis for a "corporate giant" (luckily, not in the Financial industry), in a role which has taken me to 18 countries, and counting...

My Civ-IV accomplishments, good bad and indifferent, are listed in my signature.

I agree Justinian would be a great choice - I just had a 120BC Religious win with him on Deity... Spiritual really helps with reducing Anarchy, and his starting Techs are both useful.

For the setup, I suggest Hemispheres, with 2 continents, and to use Mapfinder to generate a start position with 2 gold, plus land which can be farmed, to enable the gold to be worked as soon as feasible.

Looking forward to lots of entertaining games!!!

 

[Mighty Dwaarf]

but I'm a big fan of Everton FC

Oz you never mentioned this

Welcome aboard Ian!!
Welcome also GF and Ralph.

I too think spiritual can help to improve diplo with civic change requests also starting with mysticism gives springboard to religious techs and Stonehenge. Justinians Catapracht will also help to persuade those heretics of the one true faith!!

I dont think the aim of the game is to accomplish the fastest and most overwhelming victory more to develop team playing so not sure is necessary to re roll to the ultimate start. We should take the first ok'ish start that comes up. We will more than likely learn more from a tougher game than a straightforward one.

I agree that a map type requiring Optics will give a broader game and if he cant build ships then Ralph will get upset.
I think we should hand pick a couple of troublesome opponents and leave rest to randomness. I like the idea of tackling Toku-you shall not enter my land-gowa maybe also Sala-I love Theocracy-din and a bloodthirsty civ like Aztec or HRE.

Strat wise I think if we have enough food GPs can bulb theo easily I have never tried taking Theo from Oracle before but can't see why is not viable. A more risky goal is to try for Machinery. I tried once last night and failed by half a dozen turns.

 

[Ozbenno]

We should probably use HOF mod (as we would in the SGOTM).

As for fastest finish, the Gauntlet thread had handpicked friendly opponents and no barbs, this will have random opponents and barbs on, so the basic strategy is the same but we'll have to expand more and have an army to ward of evil doers (can use warring to make buddies as well).

Hemispheres is probably a good choice and there seems to be general consensus for Justinian (although it took me until 1400AD to get my win). I'm more inclined to roll a random start but if we want a ripper can use MapFinder (if we're using HOF mod). In any case, I'll start something tonight.

I never picked up the Everton thing (Reading fan myself as I lived there for 4 years)

 

[McArine]

Checking in.

Welcome to our new members

I haven't got much to add to this discussion atm, as I have never tried for a religious victory. But I'm looking forward to trying it.

 

[mc-red]

ianw will try not to hold the Everton thing against you

Any guesses what the red in my name stands for

 

[ianw1610]

ianw will try not to hold the Everton thing against you

Any guesses what the red in my name stands for

Is it in reference to the team we brilliantly eliminated from the FA Cup a fortnight ago? (The 0-time Premiership champions, whose manager is "cracking up", and works as a waiter in his spare time?!!)

 

[mc-red]

, and works as a waiter in his spare time?!!)

Better a waiter than a Tolkien character searching for a 'precious' trophy of any kind let alone the premiership
Why do I get the feeling our team mates will soon be adding an etiquette rule about sports banter
Oz:
I think I finally figured out why I was confused about the ugrade of the super medic. I have done it many times without losing my promotions.
I just read somewhere that upgrading with a general does not suffer the loss of the XP.
I just tried this and it seems to be true.

In that case we could have had 5 wonder more points and edged the guys just above us I believe

 

[Ozbenno]

Hey banter is good. Call it team building. Other than the baiting, no other comments, so I'll go Justinian and Hemispheres, and we'll leave Tokogawa to the whims of the RNGod. We may as well use the HOF Mod

Yep, if you upgrade a GG, you don't lose the XP. It probably would have bumped us over Geezers but not to worry, we won't get the spoon.

Conroe is joining us as well.

 

[Lobsterboy]

lurker's comment: Wow! I haven't visited the SG page in a while! I'm glad to see the Chokonuts are still hangin' together!

 

[Ozbenno]

And just like that....





Not the greatest start in the world, it is probably worth moving the warrior first, NW I assume.

Justinian also doesn't start with either of the two pre-reqs for Animal Husbandry so we should probably start with Hunting and Agriculture first.

Do we want to try and Oracle Theology or bulb it. We start with Mysticism so can probably get an early Stonehenge if we want (and could maybe try for Oracling Metal Casing as well).

Anyway, thoughts on the starting position and I'll move the warrior in the preferred direction and re-post later.

 

[Ozbenno]

lurker's comment: Wow! I haven't visited the SG page in a while! I'm glad to see the Chokonuts are still hangin' together!

G'day Lobster! Haven't seen you around for a while, although the Chokonuts have changed a bit since you were a member. Interested in a FFH SG? I might be starting one up soon.

 

[cubbiesin08]

That's a pretty bad start...

I guess I would move the warrior NW as it looks like we might have coastline there.

Agree on starting techs to get AH done.