Pope Francis On Gays: Who Am I To Judge Them?

[BvBPL]

Drug legalization isn't the topic though.

 

[Gucumatz]

Drug legalization isn't the topic though.

With Forma every secondary topic requires a doctrinal paper accompanying it so he can wage google quote wars. Its kind of a hobby I think. It might not be the topic, but he'll derail it to it in a few minutes then scream how everyone misunderstands his posts (when clearly everyone understands...) then send me 20 pages full of angry visitor messages/private messages

Needless to say you can only debate Forma so much before you get annoyed with him

 

[Antilogic]

To answer the pope's question: he's the effing pope.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Needless to say you can only debate Forma so much before you get annoyed with him

"Needless to say" you still haven't provided any corroborating facts while continuing to discuss others instead of the topic.

 

[schlaufuchs]

Someone should remind the pope that people don't really get better because they told some old man in a robe their "sins". They can only get better if they actually form some more viable mentality towards the world and themselves.

Salvation = Confession + Penance

It's not just confessing your sins. It is coming face to face with the sins you have committed, acknowledging you're doing wrong, and atoning for them, whatever that may require.

I'm not saying I *like* the Catholic Church or agree with very many of their positions on modern questions, but the idea of confession and repentance (in isolation) is an idea I actually rather like.

 

[warpus]

Usually the atoning was just reading a bunch of passages from the Bible, not actually facing what you did wrong and thinking about it. But that's just from my own experience growing up in a catholic country.

 

[druidravi]

Aes Sedai speak.

 

[Farm Boy]

Usually the atoning was just reading a bunch of passages from the Bible, not actually facing what you did wrong and thinking about it. But that's just from my own experience growing up in a catholic country.

I believe the idea here is that contemplation by reading and education makes one more capable of making better decisions in the future. So the theory would go. But I don't know that it's necessarily effective when one is particularly inclined not to change. Kinda like anyone who blindly follows without at least internal question papal decree, or one who refuses to even give lip service to the vast and enduring good that the RCC brings in social services to those who need it most because of theological disagreement.

 

[warpus]

It just wasn't taught to me like that at all by the nuns and priests or whoever. It was just "read this passage" and your sins are forgiven. From what I can remember anyway

Maybe they just didn't do a very good job explaining the whole process to me. The catholic church and its many rituals just didn't make much sense to me at the time.

 

[Gucumatz]

Did you grow up in Poland Warpus or elsewhere?

 

[MobBoss]

Is anyone surprised?

In that interview he still maintained that homosexual sex is still sin. Odd that the huffpo story left that out.

I mean why isn't the headline 'Pope still maintains that homosexual sex is a sin'?

Ah...because media wants to spin it like the Pope endorses homosexuality when that isn't the case at all.

Context is everything.

 

[useless]

I think we all know the Pope doesn't endorse Homosexuality Mobboss, even after his latest comments.

 

[ParkCungHee]

In that interview he still maintained that homosexual sex is still sin. Odd that the huffpo story left that out.

I mean why isn't the headline 'Pope still maintains that homosexual sex is a sin'?

Because Man Bites Dog.

 

[civ_king]

The thing that stood out to me most about his tour of Latin America so far was his opposition to legalising drugs. Any of them.

So from my point of view its just more of the same.

Maybe if he has anything positive to say about contraception he might actually have a positive influence on humanity, or at least serve as a dampener on the RCC's huge negative influence.

But I'm not going to hold my breath- he's probably just a time-server like every other Pope.

He wants to work on the root causes.

Don't really see this as anything positive. Just the Pope/catholic church trying to seem closer to what supposedly is PC (which itself is a made-up concept).

Someone should remind the pope that people don't really get better because they told some old man in a robe their "sins". They can only get better if they actually form some more viable mentality towards the world and themselves.

A valid confession requires repentance.

Usually the atoning was just reading a bunch of passages from the Bible, not actually facing what you did wrong and thinking about it. But that's just from my own experience growing up in a catholic country.

Now it is praying (and sometimes corporal works of mercy).

In that interview he still maintained that homosexual sex is still sin. Odd that the huffpo story left that out.

I mean why isn't the headline 'Pope still maintains that homosexual sex is a sin'?

Ah...because media wants to spin it like the Pope endorses homosexuality when that isn't the case at all.

Context is everything.

Yeah, he statement was more of that if a priest is faithful to his vows he doesn't really care who they are attracted to.

I think we all know the Pope doesn't endorse Homosexuality Mobboss, even after his latest comments.

Isn't homosexuality how you feel as opposed to what you do?

 

[MobBoss]

I think we all know the Pope doesn't endorse Homosexuality Mobboss, even after his latest comments.

You mean his comment that who is he to judge a non-sexually active homosexual?

 

[Takhisis]

Is anyone surprised?

Not very. But then he's been our archbishop for quite a while so I'm used to the man.

But I'm not going to hold my breath- he's probably just a time-server like every other Pope.

Noooo, nononono. Not this Pope.

It just wasn't taught to me like that at all by the nuns and priests or whoever. It was just "read this passage" and your sins are forgiven. From what I can remember anyway

Maybe they just didn't do a very good job explaining the whole process to me. The catholic church and its many rituals just didn't make much sense to me at the time.

Bolded. The point of reading is that it should make you a better man, of course, if you do it just to get the annoying nun/priest out of your hair it'll probably not help.

And of course it didn't make sense to you! It's a very complicated affair, for grown-ups, God is not a magician in the sky that'll behave the like the genie from Aladdin… and sadly many people believe He is.

 

[Takhisis]

I might translate this article if I get a chance.

 

[ParkCungHee]

To answer the pope's question: he's the effing pope.

But that's not the Pope's job!

 

[warpus]

Bolded. The point of reading is that it should make you a better man, of course, if you do it just to get the annoying nun/priest out of your hair it'll probably not help.

I had no choice - it was something everybody went through.. so I had to too. I thought it would make me a better person at the time - or at least hoped that it would.

And of course it didn't make sense to you! It's a very complicated affair, for grown-ups, God is not a magician in the sky that'll behave the like the genie from Aladdin… and sadly many people believe He is.

I don't mean like that - it wasn't explained very well in terms of how the whole system works and what's involved and expected of me. I was thrown in there thinking "Holy crap, I'm doing everything wrong and God is going to hate me forever". Being a shy kid I dove face first into the cold water and honestly told the priest what sins I thought that I had committed, but was gravely afraid that I wasn't including the right ones. It was an incredibly terrifying process for me.

And no, it's not very complicated! It could have been explained better or at least simplified. They just didn't though, it was just "what was done, go do it" type of thing.

And the thing is that that's exactly what we were told God was - a magical Aladdin type of deity who lives in the sky and watches the things that we do. So I suppose of course they couldn't explain confession to us in the proper context - because my context of what God is was all messed up in the first place, at least in terms of what Catholic Christian dogma says God is. But that made the process incredibly infuriating and confusing for me, the sort of thing that eventually drove me away from the church completely.

So I dunno.. when you put a kid through that process, explain what the hell is going on I guess... even just a bit. Kids can understand cause and effect and to some extent the basics of rational thinking. They can connect the dots. Don't tell them God is one thing and then mix it up and put them through a procedure that doesn't make sense.

I guess this is a bit of a rant now, but I did not really enjoy confession. The only cool confession I ever did was in Germany where we wrote our sins on a piece of paper and threw them into a pit of fire right there in the church. That was fun and it made me want to sin more - so that I could repent and be a better Christian.

 

[Formaldehyde]

If this god is omniscient what is the purpose of confessing to a human?