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Popping your initial Great Priest from the Moai Statues

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by ohjames, Oct 31, 2012.

  1. ohjames

    ohjames Warlord

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    This is a weird opening that I've never heard anyone discuss. Assume you've got some Fish in your opener - under what conditions would it make sense to pop an initial Great Priest from the Moai Statues?

    Would you settle her, burn her for a Golden Age to generate Great Scientists, or pop Theology?

    Note that Moai only generates only one GPP so there's no actual benefit to being Philosophical, at least initially (the bonus gets rounded off, as far as I can tell).
     
  2. Jastrow

    Jastrow Deity

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    That sounds waaaaay to slow to even consider, unless I am missing something here.
     
  3. sohleks

    sohleks Prince

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    Philosophical does benefit from a single gpp per turn. It's a 100% increase so 1 gpp becomes 2, it doesn't round down.

    As for the Moai statues I'm not a fan of them myself. The few times I have built them early I feel like it isn't worth it, even with stone. Then again I dislike working coastal tiles, and I rarely play financial.
     
  4. ohjames

    ohjames Warlord

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    The conditions which support this would have to be pretty specific I think - Augustus seems like he could pull it off, being Ind and starting with Fish/Mine and a lot of choppable forests.

    But I'm not sure what benefit an early Great Priest would have for him, aside from simply settling it in the capital for wonderspamming?
     
  5. ohjames

    ohjames Warlord

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    Oh! You are totally correct. Elizabeth might be a good choice for this then, as opposed to Augustus.
     
  6. Ghpstage

    Ghpstage Deity

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    Can't think of any situation where it wouldn't be shooting yourself in the foot.

    Cost wise Moai is very expensive for the early game, and its effects are only noticeable in larger cities so the building itself will be more or less useless for ages, Stonehenge is less than half the price!

    Getting your first GP via this method will be a lot like pulling a tooth out using molegrips, slow and excruciatingly painful! Not only will you have to pay a huge cost for a marginal national wonder, but you will have to wait another 100 turns (assuming non PHI) to get your Prophet, as 0AD is turn 115 this puts his birth in the ADs at the earliest, which is very slow.

    Also by building Moai early your taking up a nat wonder slot in that city, and this wonder is rarely worth having in a capital that isn't ridiculously wet.
     
  7. babar

    babar King

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    Or play as Egypt
     
  8. coanda

    coanda Emperor

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    I can't imagine a situation where I'd finish Moai statues before turn 50 or so, because it's just not a strong early-game wonder and there's no time pressure on it. Even if I had Stone, was IND, and had 3 seafood in my capital BFC... I still wouldn't be rushing it (in that wonderful situation, some of the world wonders would be higher priorities for me).

    Then you get to wait, best-case, another 50 turns before the GP finishes (for a PHI leader... which in turn means not an IND leader, which makes Moai more expensive and pushes back how early in the game you may want to build it). Figure ~0 AD you get your first Great Person, and it's a Great Prophet. There is no situation where I would consider that a good outcome. If your game plan absolutely requires an early Great Prophet, either choose your civ for that or get an early temple (which would get you your GPP 3 times as fast). If your game plan does not require that, why are you trying to generate what is generally one of the weaker GP early at crippling cost to your overall GP generation?
     
  9. ohjames

    ohjames Warlord

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    I will note that at 6F1P3C, Moai Lighthouse Financial Fish are just an obscene tile in the BCs. 6F1P5C w/ Colossus. Having these tiles in a Bear capital is not unreasonable! Two coastline Fish + one sea seafood is not an impossible start, but I think you'd have to leave Mapfinder on for a while to get trip coastline Fish, let alone quads :p

    The Great Priest comes so slowly and so late that I suppose the question is actually just "in which situations might you want early capital Moai?" - I imagine you'd probably just pop a Great Scientist from a Library in another city, initially.
     
  10. coanda

    coanda Emperor

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    Agreed. However, the change in value of the tiles isn't that great. FIN coastal fish are a great tile; FIN coastal fish with Moai are a slightly greater tile.
     
  11. babar

    babar King

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    Getting Moais in your capital can be good very occasionally, but should usually be avoided since it uses up an important NW slot. Moais are best used in cities that have very few good land tiles to work. Probably only recommended if you are going to move your capital and have another GP farm location available.
     
  12. ben-jammin

    ben-jammin Emperor

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    For me Maoi is more about making a marginal city site into one that can contribute a lot. There have even been games where the Maoi statues and the heroic epic ended up in the same city. Otherwise it's mostly useful for building wealth if you have stone or are industrious.
     
  13. NetGear

    NetGear King

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    Maoi is one of those wonders I usually don't end up building. Not sure if that's doing it wrong. But it seems as if sites that could use maoi usually has way too little production to get it built in reasonable time. Or sites that has reasonable production usually has enough land tiles and little coasts to forget building it. Not really worth it imo.
     
  14. Culture Bomb

    Culture Bomb Warlord

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    I find the trouble with Moai Statues is that the cities that will benefit most from it are those that have almost all water tiles, but a city like that will have very few hammers otherwise so will take forever to build it.

    By the way, what's a "Bear capital?" I've been reading these forums for a while but have never heard of that before?

    Edit: oops, didn't read NetGear's post properly, he said almost the same thing as me.
     
  15. Smilingrogue

    Smilingrogue Raging Barbarian

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    With stone, building Moai on a one tile island with a couple of sea-food is not that difficult. Need to be careful with managing whip overflow and they can be built in reasonable time while the city also gets its infra built.

    But Moai in capital for popping a GP sounds weaker to say trying for the Stonehenge/Oracle or better yet, playing as Arabs or Egyptians for their relatively early two priest slot buildings.
     
  16. rah

    rah Deity Supporter

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    Couldn't have said it better myself.
     
  17. AbsoluteZero

    AbsoluteZero Deity

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    Moai only really gives a good benefit when working a LOT of water tiles, but in the early game you just can't work that many tiles. Early game the best way to get production is whipping, because your happy / health caps are so low.

    That means early game Moai will just not be that beneficial.

    The other problem is water tiles in general suck compared to mid game land improvements. Even non-river towns beat water tiles. So you wouldn't want Moai in your capitol mid-game.
     
  18. elmurcis

    elmurcis Emperor

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    Moai is nice if have <5 workable land tiles, atleast 2 sea foods (3+ better) and it works great together with Globe theatre :)
    But for 1st GPP? It would make sence if build Stonehedge and Moai...
     
  19. MilesBeyond

    MilesBeyond Prince

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    This. If an early Great Prophet is your goal, an Obelisk is a million times better than Moai at accomplishing that.
     
  20. vicawoo

    vicawoo Chieftain

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    Or you could build a temple and run a priest for 34 turns vs 50, or a library and scientists if you want to burn a great person. Or if you can build stonehenge/oracle, that would be cheaper and faster.

    Although it's an innovative idea, maybe if you have stone.
     

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