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Popular protests in the EU

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by innonimatu, Nov 17, 2018.

  1. innonimatu

    innonimatu Warlord

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    We have a thread on mass murders in the US, we can have one on popular protests in the EU. Anywhere inside the EU, because I really wonder where people are more displeased, with what, and how different governments are reacting. I'd like help keeping a record of mass protests, it would be interesting to compare them.

    We can start with France, that's the hot spot today. Anyone from France can say what has happened? English media has managed to ignore it almost entirely.

    There are some french newspapers with a little more coverage, but it seems that the media was not into this to start with, and has not covered it well. Do they mostly quote the police because this protest did not had political organization and media representation to start with?
     
  2. Akka

    Akka Moody old mage.

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    Ah yeah, so any protest anywhere against anything is a protest against the tyranny of the EU :rolleyes:
     
  3. Wastl

    Wastl Chieftain

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    How exactly was "the media" not into this to start with?
    Even a passing glance at English media shows that they have indeed covered this, as have the news in other European states, and even American media has reported on it. There is no shortage of reports, and the media certainly hasn't ignored the protests.

    France has been known for large-scale protest, they are hardly unusual. In this case it is mostly about the costs of living. Diesel, which is the main fuel used in France, has become much more expensive, in part due to oil prices, in part due to an additional tax, that will see another rise starting in 2019.
     
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  4. AdrienIer

    AdrienIer Chieftain

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    This kind of protest is pretty unusual. It's not union-based, it's mostly non-political people, some of whom never vote, most of whom have never been in a protest, who are finally realizing that what happens in the world affects them. And because it affects them negatively they're angry. Unfortunately their anger is being channeled by the right and the far right, and they can't seem to have a coherent message to send except for "we're angry".

    Diesel used to be super cheap. Some people in those protests couldn't afford anything but a diesel powered car when they bought their most recent one. Others simply didn't care about the reports saying that diesel is a very bad pollutant. For 10 years now it's been pretty clear that the taxes on diesel (that were much lower than those on regular gas) were going to be raised to make it less desirable. Some of these people were lied to by the people who sold them a diesel powered car, others couldn't be bothered to educate themselves on the issue.
     
    Silurian likes this.
  5. innonimatu

    innonimatu Warlord

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    Thanks for the information. Reports on this were so low-key that I wasn't sure it was something new or not, but it seemed new. I recall half a dozen years ago "non-organized" protests springing up against certain austerity policies in my country, the largest in decades, and the political parties were surprised.

    Today's protest news are from Greece. Though h there it seems to be students, about education, not so new and nor really making into the international news at all.
     
  6. Silurian

    Silurian Chieftain

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    Protest in London, 17/11 about Climate change. This was reported on the BBC

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/v...-bridges-to-protest-over-climate-crisis-video

    Protest in Colchester, (town to north east of London), assume 17/11 about sexual violence

    https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/colches...centre-for-action-on-rape-and-abuse-1-5784317

    Protest in Dublin, Cork and Limerick, assume 13/11 about use of clothing to suggest consent to rape. This was reported on the BBC

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...y-underwear-not-consent-teenagers-thong-used/

    Oslo, assume 17/11 about right to abortion

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...lberg-christian-democrats-march-a8638966.html

    Protest in Great Yarmouth, (another town to north east of London) 10/11 about closure of Children's homes.

    https://www.itv.com/news/anglia/upd...t-march-to-save-childrens-centres-in-norfolk/

    First page of search for last week
     
    Lexicus likes this.
  7. innonimatu

    innonimatu Warlord

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  8. Silurian

    Silurian Chieftain

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    Protest in Brussels, 3/11 about climate change (there was one in London too which I was not going too post because more than about a week ago but this would suggest coordination)

    http://www.brusselstimes.com/brusse...in-brussels-before-national-march-in-december

    Protest in Bratislava, 16/11 about attacks on media

    https://www.channelnewsasia.com/new...t-former-slovak-pm-s-attack-on-media-10940100

    Future Protest, Luxemburg 24/11 about violence against women


    Seem like there are quite a few protests going on.
     
  9. Cheetah

    Cheetah Chieftain

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    Dunno who said that, but I'd disagree with that sentiment.

    This whole abortion thing is just political bickering. The only party that wants this is the Christian Democrats. They're a small and almost irrelevant party, but they have the privilege of being the last few votes that is needed to support either the current right-wing government or a new left-wing government.

    The Conservative PM has the majority of her party against this, as well as her two coalition partners, and the opposition. The vast majority of the Norwegian people are absolutely against any new restrictions on abortion. It only came up because the government doesn't have a majority in parliament unless the Christian Democrats support it.

    The Christian Democrats have been deeply internally confused whether they should support the right-wing government, or support the opposition and get a left-wing government instead. A few months ago their leader took a courageous decision that he thought they should support the opposition, and this kicked off the latest political circus up here. The party had a very controversial vote on the matter, decided by a slim majority to not only continuing to support the right-wing government, but also officially enter as a part of the government. Apparently the talk of restricting abortion rights came from a few voices in the Conservatives to try and win the Christian Democrats over.

    So now there's gonna be new government talks to try and include the Christian Democrats, while both their leaders and the PM says that «the new restrictions would only really be for show anyway, so there's nothing to be concerned about»...

    Everyone else hates the suggestion, and the Christian Democrats are, in any case, about to tear themselves apart, and might soon cease to be.

    My guesses:
    • The conservative Christian Democrats will be greatly disappointed by what they will actually get out of the negotiations
    • There won't be any changes to the abortion law
    • The Christian Democrats will cease to exist, and their members will join the other parties
     
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  10. PPQ_Purple

    PPQ_Purple Techpriest Engineer

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    And honestly they shouldn't care. Fact of the matter is that most pollution is not caused by private vehicles but by giant industrial plants, electrical plants and other infrastructure. And yet EU governments are cracking down on the right of the average citizen to have an affordable car as opposed to building atomic plants to actually combat pollution. It's the light bulb **** all over again.

    Bottom line is that the government should not force people to change their life style in order to save the environment until l such a time that it has run out of all other legitimate options.
     
  11. AdrienIer

    AdrienIer Chieftain

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    Yes and no. When a child walks by your diesel car they inhale a lot of microparticles which are truly awful for the lungs (and children are at the right height to breathe the microparticles coming out of a car in quantity). If you live near important roads (whether in the city or in the countryside like in the Mont Blanc Valley near the Mont Blanc tunnel, which is the most polluted place in France) cars make up a lot of your pollution. If you live away from large roads industry is making up most of the pollution.

    BTW this is only the government taking away an incentive for diesel cars, that used to make such cars cheaper and diesel itself cheaper. The government gave incentives to move to diesel and people want this incentive to remain even when there are no reason for it to remain.
     
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  12. Estebonrober

    Estebonrober Chieftain

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    No reason to remain other than it is hard on people's bank accounts.
     
  13. FriendlyFire

    FriendlyFire Codex WMDicanious

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    30% Fuel tax ?
    We pay around 40% fuel tax in Australia and we like it
    The Germans are paying like 140% on their fuel and I dont see the Germans carrying out massive protest. The Germans quietly hold it inside themselves and will later come out in a violent invasion of Poland at some time in the future.
     
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  14. Akka

    Akka Moody old mage.

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    I don't see where you saw this 30 % figure, because it's much higher (60 % of the total price comes from taxes, which means that it's about 200 %).
    Diesel is right now a bit higher than 1,5 € per litre, so for people who use medieval units, that would be about 5 € per gallon (by comparison, Australia is around 2,6 $ per gallon, so less than half that).
     
  15. Silurian

    Silurian Chieftain

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    In the UK fuel duty (diesel and petrol) is £0.5795/Litre plus the duty and the fuel gets taxed at 20% VAT so about 59% of the cost of diesel is tax.
    At the moment on average petrol costs £1.30/litre and diesel £1.36/litre. Or $6.35/Gallon for gas.
     
  16. Manfred Belheim

    Manfred Belheim Chieftain

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  17. Silurian

    Silurian Chieftain

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    That's what the women were protesting about.
    What a women is wearing does not mean that she agrees to have sex with her attacker.
     
  18. PPQ_Purple

    PPQ_Purple Techpriest Engineer

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    Which is reason enough. The government should newer take steps to deliberately hurt the living standards of their people other than in dire and severe emergencies like war.
     
  19. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Warlord

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    We do have a Climate war.
    And as much governments will try to pay for all the investments needed out of future GDP growth, this will be quite difficult. Also because the average annual GDP growth of 3% seems to be a thing of the past for the highly developed economies.
    What is left is energy/climate related cost increases, from electricity, airplane kerosine, meat, etc, etc and something like taxing the 5% top incomes/wealth.
     
  20. PPQ_Purple

    PPQ_Purple Techpriest Engineer

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    No we do not. Not by any definition of the word war you'll find in the dictionary anyway.

    What does growth have to do with anything? There is a difference between demanding growth and demanding the government not deliberately undercut you by policy to suit their own ideological agenda.

    Invest in atomic. Heavily. Atomic energy is cheap and clean and safe.

    And businesses. Tax businesses. They ain't people.
     

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