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Portugal Discussion

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by otaman1, Apr 12, 2013.

  1. poom3619

    poom3619 Ping Pang Poom!

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    Imagine Britain move her throne to America, Louis XIV retreat to somewhere in Africa and Romanov retreated to Alaska :lol:

    That's truly unique I guess. I wish to know more about history.
     
  2. iRule

    iRule Chieftain

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    Oh, and speaking of which: there's another problem with Maria I.

    Do you know what was the Portuguese state officially back then?

    Reino Unido de Portugal, Brasil e Algarves - The United Kingdom of Portugal, Brazil and the Algarves.

    Brazil was, technically, while Maria I was still alive, an autonomous state in the Portuguese Empire. For some time (what with Rio de Janeiro becoming the capital of Portugal) Brazil was the de facto sovereign power of the United Kingdom of the Portuguese peoples (Brazilians + Portuguese).

    In fact Brazil engaged in a war for independence after the Liberals got into in Lisbon and Porto and wanted to revoke Brazil's status as an independent kingdom inside the United Kingdom of Portugal and Brazil. Dom Pedro I (the father of Brazil's Pedro II in CiV, and grandson of Maria I, the first Portuguese dynasty monarch to have lived most of his life in Brazil) declared independence, pressured by the Brazilians, because that meant moving the capital from Rio back to Lisbon, and Brazil would become, again, a mere colony of the Portuguese Empire - with its laws dictated by Lisbon, subject to countless trade limitations when dealing with foreign powers, etc. Oddly enough, he ended up giving up his now independent Brazil throne to his son (CiV's Pedro II), after realising how messed up European Portugal had become, and how Miguel, his brother, was razing Portugal with a civil war against the Liberals - who he accused of separating Brazil from Portugal for the reasons I pointed above.

    Feeling guilty and responsible for the chaos razing Portugal, a nation who was cut from its most important region (Brazil), Pedro I of Brazil (IV of Portugal) revoked his title as the Emperor of Brazil, went back to Portugal (more precisely the Liberals' bastion of the Azores) and fought for her daughter's (Maria II - WHO SHOULD HAVE BEEN PORTUGAL'S WOMAN LEADER IN CIV, FIRAXIS!! She was behind Portugal's reconstruction era and the rise of Portugal, again, as a major power, because of the Scramble for Africa! It doesn't matter if she was born in Rio de Janeiro while Maria I was born in Lisbon, ultimately she was much more Portuguese than Maria I) right to be the Queen and ruler of Portugal, against Pedro's brother, that Miguel fellow.

    The Portuguese Civil War was partly because of the Liberalism vs Absolutism, but had, as a background, Brazil's role in the Portuguese Empire: one side (the winning Liberals) defended Brazil's independence, if the price for keeping Brazil in the Portuguese Empire was to move Portugal's heart and capital to Rio de Janeiro; the other side (the losing Absolutists, led by Pedro's brother Miguel) fought for the inclusion of Brazil in Portugal - even if that meant losing Lisbon as a capital for Rio.

    You can see where the Brazilian/Portuguese dramatic TV series come from.

    So, Maria I was, in fact, the ruler of "independent" Brazil until her death.

    P.S - We could be living in a crazy alternative universe, where Portugal and Brazil would continue to be an United Kingdom until, who knows, today, had the Portuguese backed down on the ultimatum presented to Rio de Janeiro on the revoking of their autonomy rights.

    The Brazilian/Portuguese independence crisis is one of the most interesting, underrated 19th century historical events. The world could have taken a very different shape had just a few things been different.
     
  3. poom3619

    poom3619 Ping Pang Poom!

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    That's great. I would underestimate how enjoyable the history of nation/kingdom which a king used to fought his mother in war ;).
     
  4. iRule

    iRule Chieftain

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    Ah, you mean Portugal's formation as a Kingdom, when Afonso Henriques rebelled against the Kingdom of Galiza? :D

    Yeah, we (and the Brazilians) have a history of unresolved mommy issues, ever since the early days of our country. :lol: The Brazilian independence and Maria I's rule wasn't much different from 16 years old Afonso Henriques fighting for independence against his mother, because she was hanging out with a Galician nobleman after his father's death. :lol:
     
  5. Veras

    Veras Chieftain

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    As a brazilian, I feel very sorry for this description for Portugal. I Hope they get it fixed.

    Although Maria II would be a far better civ leader than Maria I, I think the fact that she was propably the only portuguese monarch not born in european portuguese soil could raise the same issue against the inclusion of female leaders. I really don't know what the portuguese people think about Maria II, but we just have to face the fact that Portugal is one of the worst civs for the inclusion of a female leader.
     
  6. iRule

    iRule Chieftain

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    Maria II is alright in our book Veras.

    She was behind the reconstruction of post Civil War Portugal, helped to consolidate the Liberal regime, and was, in a way, behind the "Police State" of Portugal (do keep in mind that Police State, in the 19th century, meant something different - a police state was a sort of fledgling social welfare state), building many hospitals, orphanages (actually my house in Lisbon is built just in front of an old, now-turned-into-a-school orphanage ordered to be built by Maria II), and effectively paving the way for the (ultimately tragic) dream of "Portuguese Africa".

    The City of Lisbon owes her reign most of its plazas, wider streets, and whatnot. Angola's rise as an African powerhouse colony began in heir reign

    The fact she was born in Rio de Janeiro, and so was "jus solis" Brazilian, is irrelevant. Maria I spent most of her life in Brazil and ended up dying in Rio de Janeiro...

    And the mere fact Maria I is known as "Maria the Pious" and "Maria the Mad" in both Portugal and Brazil, while Maria II is known as "the Educator" and "the Good Mother" talks lots.
     
  7. Glassmage

    Glassmage The Desert Flame

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    i like the crazy Maria more. Just be happy that your country is in. :)
     
  8. iRule

    iRule Chieftain

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    I really don't think that makes much sense, and to be honest the example I'm going to give is quite different, but take out the slavery issue and you'll understand it better:

    What if Jefferson Davis was the United States' leader in game?

    OK, Maria was never the de jure ruler of Brazil, but in practical terms she was. And she separated a vital part of the country from itself.
     
  9. Glassmage

    Glassmage The Desert Flame

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    I will be happy if USA is in even with Obama as leader..... ANYWAY Portugal will be imbalance with their copying luxuries power. Arabia and Netherlands won't stand a chance.
     
  10. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    That's been the trend since Sejong. They used to talk about civilizations, but now all of them talk about their leader.

    Yes, because they're going to pay Morgan Sheppard lots of money to come back to the studio just to record one thing. If it bothers you so much, how about you pay him?

    Portugal is in the game and, by all accounts, sounds fun to play as. If you play as them, you have to wait through that description but are fine otherwise. If you play against them, you have to see Maria, but are fine otherwise. You can call it disappointing, sure, but it's not the end of the world. They're still in the game.
     
  11. AriochIV

    AriochIV Analyst

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    The Civilization descriptions in the load screen are universally stupid. Why should Portugal's be any less stupid than the rest?
     
  12. iRule

    iRule Chieftain

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    We have't heard the text being read by Sheppard yet, one can dream.
     
  13. Veras

    Veras Chieftain

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    We have seen only the written description, nobody knows if the audio is already recorded. The description as it is can be rewritten for free.
     
  14. JSMCAG

    JSMCAG Chieftain

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    I'd say the voice acting is done already - we heard Pedro and Ashurbanipal.
    It's true that music, with the exception of Great Works' introduction, seems to still be missing, probably as they still have to meet with the Prague Filmharmonic Orchestra to record the music (and the little shines we heard already are most probably MIDI or otherwise computer generated), but voice acting is most probably done - true that they can record different actors at different days, but then the cost to rent a recording studio would spike up.

    So I'd say there's little chance to change anything now, but whatever... There are worse civilization intros out there, and they got Portugal right where it really matter: gameplay!
     
  15. strijder20

    strijder20 Wallowing in irony

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    I think they can only pull that trick on coastal City States.
     
  16. Beefie

    Beefie Chieftain

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    Also I believe it mentions "portion" somewhere in the description, so maybe you only get their duplicates for luxury resources (if any) and some amount of their strategic resources.
     
  17. Dark_Jedi06

    Dark_Jedi06 "Deus ex Machina."

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    Gotta say I agree with this...Denmark and ring forts throughout the land springs to mind.
     
  18. Liex

    Liex Chieftain

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    That loadscreen is particularly cringeworthy. Why are they focusing so much in the leaders?

    They could just say how the Portuguese were important explorers and traders, how they influenced a lot of people from Brazil to Nagasaki, how lasting was their colonial empire etc. Instead, they choose to tell us how a crazy queen helplessly watched her empire to rip apart...
     
  19. Stove

    Stove Chieftain

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    Does anyone know how the coastal forts work, or do we just know that they exist?
     
  20. Liex

    Liex Chieftain

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    They're built by Portuguese workers inside a City-State's borders, granting a copy of any resource produced by that City-State. If Portugal is ally of the said City-State, then it gets 2 copies.
     

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