portugal it s a great nation

AfonsoI

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portugal
about the question of the inclusion of portugal in this game, i think not because only a great civ that can distroy two citys with an atomic bomb it has the honor to be part of it, only a civ like the usa that can't be in peace with no one can have a great history (oh!!!!!!!!!!! usa only has 200 years and that's not history :confused: )in man kind. if this is the way that the man who made this game think i don't the name of portugal in this.
ps: think twice when o talk about portugal because it was and it is a great a great "people".
:confused:
 

Minuteman

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I don't mean to step on your chauvinistic toes here, but I don't recall anyone writing anything negative about Portugal. In fact, the subject of Portugal hasn't even been raised recently. Is Portugal-bashing all the rage where you come from?
 

AfonsoI

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My chauvinist toes:confused: oh now i'm the chauvinist!!! In this messages i only saw people talking about portugal an you want me to stay shut up i'm ust talking about the injustice of the miss inclusion of portugal in this game. and are't the portuguese that are none as been chauvinists.
 

amadeus

hey now!
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If you haven't noticed, all of the civilizations in Civilization III are or were major powers in the world. Portugal was an influential power but only for a brief period between 1500AD-1700AD...
 

Minuteman

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Originally posted by AfonsoI
My chauvinist toes:confused: oh now i'm the chauvinist!!! In this messages i only saw people talking about portugal an you want me to stay shut up i'm ust talking about the injustice of the miss inclusion of portugal in this game. and are't the portuguese that are none as been chauvinists.


Look, I'm of the opinion that Firaxis was, and still is, in a no-win situation with regards to which civs it decided to include in the game. It is true that Portugal once enjoyed its moment in the sun as a great power, but so did Turkey, Spain, Mongolia, and even Sweden & Poland.

The bottom line here is that you can't please everyone. Even had Firaxis included all of the aforementioned civs, plus two dozen more, there would STILL be people from other countries who would feel excluded. Then, before you even knew what hit you, you'd have people from Belize, Sri Lanka, and Angola coming on here screaming "what about us?!?! What about us?!?!"

If you want Portugal, or any other civ you can think of in the game, just simply rename one of the existing civs to the one you desire.....even America! Don't you think that Abe Lincoln would make a dashing Prince Henry the Navigator?
 

Troyens

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For most of its history Portugal wasn't even independent. And when it was, for a very long time they were a dependant client state of the British; that was especially so during the Napoleonic Wars when Wellington had his main base inside the Torres Vedras lines north of Lisbon.
 

AfonsoI

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in first of all if people want to talk about something they have to check before, because they can fall in the mistake of talking bad.
my first answer its to rmsharpe :

If you haven't noticed, all of the civilizations in Civilization III are or were major powers in the world. Portugal was an influential power but only for a brief period between 1500AD-1700AD...

that isn't all true first in civIII not all the civilizations were major powers in the world and second, yes portugal was an influencial power for 200years something like all the history of usa. that's one more reason for the inclusion of portugal in this game.
My second answer is for troyens :

For most of its history Portugal wasn't even independent. And when it was, for a very long time they were a dependant client state of the British;

portugal has 900years of history and in all that time things happen and if you chek you'll see that portugal have more years of independece that in control of spain.
for example uk haven't alwais been like today.
thank you for your time
 

Hamlet

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Originally posted by rmsharpe
The Iriquois (sp?) were the only ones I can think of that weren't a major power at one time or another.

The Zulu also.

It's also arguable as to whether The Babylonians or The Aztecs were, either.
 

Hitro

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There are simply too many european civilizations (or rather nations) who've had some importance in some period of history. But as Firaxis obviously wanted a more equal distribution of the civs over the world, they had to take some maybe less influencial like the Zulu in.

But with the editor that's not that important anyway...
 

seghillian

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Why do people get so exercised over this issue of the civs in the game? The civs chosen are an uneasy mixture of some ancient civilisations and some modern countries. In a historical sense there obviously was no American Civ (apart from native Americans already represented by the Iriquois). Civs like the English, Americans, Germans, French and others have made substantial contributions to history but they were not around 4000 years ago when the game begins. Their use simply helps players identify either with the ancient cultures (Egypt, Greece, Rome) we learned about in school, or with modern nation states where most of us (in this forum) live and work today.

If your own nation isn't included and you want it to be - there's an editor and you can create a civ in 5 minutes (longer if you want custom graphics).

Personally, I've got The Geordies, the residents of my home city, Newcastle. They weren't around 4000 years ago either but hey - it's a game which gives more than a passing nod to history but cannot hope to simulate it.
 

crabapple

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The reason The Babylonians are in the game is becouse they where the first civilization to form in the World History, they invented code of laws and so on...
 

Sarcastro

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Originally posted by AfonsoI
that isn't all true first in civIII not all the civilizations were major powers in the world and second, yes portugal was an influencial power for 200years something like all the history of usa. that's one more reason for the inclusion of portugal in this game.

Yes, but you can't get past this: Even at its height, Portugal was never as powerful as, for instance, America, Russia, or Germany at their respective peaks (and America is still at its peak, so it remains to be seen if our peak will last as long as Portugal's). So, while Portugal's era of power may have been much longer than any of those three so far, it was never as high. If you did a curve on a graph, perhaps Portugal's would be wider, but others would be much, much higher at points.

And, while nearly all of the included civs have been regional powers at one time or another in history, the only ones that have ever been very world-dominant are America, England, and Russia. I'm not talking "known world," like the Romans, but "entire world."

For what it's worth, I don't see why dozens upon dozens of Civs couldn't have been put into the game, but heck, you have that power with the editor and modding anyway.
 

hzm

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Originally posted by Sarcastro
For what it's worth, I don't see why dozens upon dozens of Civs couldn't have been put into the game, but heck, you have that power with the editor and modding anyway.

Because of the leader heads. The files are too large and for some reason it puts them on you hard drive.
 

Lt.Col. Kilgore

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There is really a couple of main reasons Portugal was not included.

Its biggest claim to fame is its exploration and colonization which, in deed, opened many possibilities to Spain and in turn the rest of Europe. But I believe when looking for major civilizations to include they look for a distinct and prolific culture, a strongly developed, and society and government, and some sort of international influence (which aside from Portugal's exploration it was quite lacking compared to most, if not all the civs included). Also I believe there to be a bit more to being considered great than just exploration and in turn exploiting the indigenous populations of Africa, the Americas, and Asia (to a smaller degree). No doubt that virtually all the European nations who were explorers are guilty of this, but these also had strong culture and distinction with quite large populations. (At least larger than Portugal).

So if you were to include Portugal I would say to include Spain first since they are, not totally, but in a few ways similar, and Spain having considerably more influence in the long run and many more people than Portugal. Including both Spain and Portugal and not say, the Celts, would be like including Norway and Sweden, but not the Turks. But I can understand your Nationalistic pride and thats very good and healthy, but there are simply too many other civs that were left out as well.
 

Blackdragon

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SEMPRE VICTORIA PORTUGUESA

Portugal is much more important then spain or italy or any other tiny european country couse they did the key steps for a moderns world. As the modern capitalism is based on the british empire, the european rule of the world is based on the portuguese way of handling the great waters.

GOD NEVERS EXISTS

BLESS THE FIGHTERS FOR A FREE PALESTINE

AMERICA WILL FALL AND WILL BE RAVAGED
 
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