[NFP] Portugal Reveal Video Discussion

[Disgustipated]

Aren't they all? There's a couple I recall enjoying but most sound like the Industrial theme with unnecessary extra stuff loaded on top, like Michael Bay rushed into the room and started smashing random buttons. "These are buttons that exist! Must push!"

I intend no criticism to the artists. I don't see it as their fault. I think it's the consequence of trying to abstract an era by adding extra layers of musical complexity. It works well until the Industrial era.

But some civs Atomic era music is actually much better than the ancient era music. I'm thinking Cree and Maori specifically. I'm not a fan of the yelling, but with the orchestra in the background, it's not too bad.

Back on topic, since I haven't posted my opinion of this civ yet. As I said in the other thread, I wanted a civ to have a similar theme of Phoenicia, which is still one of my favorite civs as you can tell by my avatar (though I admit I'm just lazy about changing it). I would say power creep is still a problem, and this civ will be extremely powerful. Obviously not on Pangaea and highlands/inland sea type maps. But seriously, how many people are going to play these guys on Pangaea? Maybe those masochists that play random maps. I kid. I know some of you like random settings, but I have never cared for it.

Might want to keep them out of the pool for the AI if you are playing one of those above mentioned maps. I certainly want to see how the AI can handle them on a water map. I think they will do quite well.

 

[Wielki Hegemon]

Perhaps something less punishing for our eyes (I mean contrast and brightness)

 

[BD123]

Perhaps something less punishing for our eyes (I mean contrast and brightness)

These are really great, you've been on a roll with these pics lately along with your Venice graphic in the other thread!

I'm actually really liking your red/green one, it's not at all harsh on the eyes. I normally despise red/green schemes (as well as purple/green schemes lol but that would never be an issue for Portugal). The light blue on dark blue is my favorite of your proposals

 

[fy00sh]

Perhaps something less punishing for our eyes (I mean contrast and brightness)

Oooh yeah I'd be really happy with the first one! I personally love abrasively bright, high-contrast colors, so that's why I made my mock-up look that way, tho I understand it's not for most people and I wouldn't want the color scheme I like best to be one that no-one else uses.

 

[Abaxial]

"Feitoria" is just a Portuguese word meaning "factory", and unless one is writing all the text in Portuguese, one should use the English word. The history of European engagement with Asia in the colonial period is a tale of factories. Granted the Portuguese started it, but if one takes as an example, the Indian subcontinent in the 18th century, there were factories estabished by the Portuguese, French and British, and one nation would happily attack factories belonging to another nation.

So really, building a factory should not be something exclusive to Portugal - other nations got in on the act pretty soon.

 

[Zaarin]

"Feitoria" is just a Portuguese word meaning "factory", and unless one is writing all the text in Portuguese, one should use the English word.

Disagree. "Factory" isn't used in that sense in English; the English term was "plantation" (cf. Ulster Plantation or Plymouth Plantation or Providence Plantation). Using feitoria makes sense in context.

So really, building a factory should not be something exclusive to Portugal - other nations got in on the act pretty soon.

One can make that argument for a lot of uniques, though.

 

[kaspergm]

Sorry if this is silly question, but is the update expected to go live Thursday the 25th?

 

[Zaarin]

Sorry if this is silly question, but is the update expected to go live Thursday the 25th?

Yes.

 

[fy00sh]

"Feitoria" is just a Portuguese word meaning "factory", and unless one is writing all the text in Portuguese, one should use the English word. The history of European engagement with Asia in the colonial period is a tale of factories. Granted the Portuguese started it, but if one takes as an example, the Indian subcontinent in the 18th century, there were factories estabished by the Portuguese, French and British, and one nation would happily attack factories belonging to another nation.

So really, building a factory should not be something exclusive to Portugal - other nations got in on the act pretty soon.

"Feitoria" seems to be used to refer, in English at least, to a specific type of Portuguese trading post. From Wiktionary:

(historical) A Portuguese trading post, usually fortified and built in coastal areas along the West and East African coasts, Indian Ocean and Brazil, from 1445 onward. It served simultaneously as market, warehouse, navigation support and customs, and was governed by a feitor (factor) to dominate the local trade with the Portuguese kingdom (and thence to Europe). Inspired by medieval European factories, feitorias were supplanted in the 16th century by rival Dutch and British colonial factories (trading posts).

Also, it seems here that "factory" is usually translated to Portuguese as fábrica or usina, not feitoria.

 

[Disgustipated]

Did anything release today? Like wonder movies or something? I was expecting something, and unless I'm blind, I don't see any threads on it

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Nothing was released today. The Livestream is tomorrow. The DLC and patch notes release on Thursday.

 

[nunor]

Disagree. "Factory" isn't used in that sense in English; the English term was "plantation" (cf. Ulster Plantation or Plymouth Plantation or Providence Plantation). Using feitoria makes sense in context.

Merriam Webster's defines factory as : "a station where factors reside and trade eg a colonial factory." Isn't this the same as a feitoria? Asking honestly here.

 

[BackseatTyrant]

Again, to echo what @Zaarin said, a lot of civ uniques aren't actually that unique to their real life counterpart countries. Château is just French for castle, ice hockey was first played in England (and it could be argued that Finland is the actual hockey nation), and carnivals are celebrated pretty much everywhere there's a catholic majority. But here's the thing: Civilization isn't about historical accuracy; it's about nationalism, and nationalism relies more on fictions than on facts. Feitorias are there because they're, supposedly, part of the Portuguese national identity, much more so than of other countries that engaged in roughly identical practices during the same time

 

[pokiehl]

Again, to echo what @Zaarin said, a lot of civ uniques aren't actually that unique to their real life counterpart countries. Château is just French for castle, ice hockey was first played in England (and it could be argued that Finland is the actual hockey nation), and carnivals are celebrated pretty much everywhere there's a catholic majority. But here's the thing: Civilization isn't about historical accuracy; it's about nationalism, and nationalism relies more on fictions than on facts. Feitorias are there because they're, supposedly, part of the Portuguese national identity, much more so than of other countries that engaged in roughly identical practices during the same time

I really disagree - how can there be “nationalism” for Babylon or Sumer for instance?

I also think you’re overthinking what a unique component to a civ is supposed to represent. It doesn’t mean that civ made that thing first or was the only one to use it - it just means it is emblematic or representative of that civilization. While I dislike the hockey rink UI it is no doubt emblematic of Canada, and just because someone else invented the sport or another country also plays it doesn’t make that any less true.

 

[raen]

"Feitoria" seems to be used to refer, in English at least, to a specific type of Portuguese trading post. From Wiktionary:

Also, it seems here that "factory" is usually translated to Portuguese as fábrica or usina, not feitoria.

Yes more like trading post.

 

[BackseatTyrant]

I really disagree - how can there be “nationalism” for Babylon or Sumer for instance?

The same reason there's nationalism for ancient Rome, romanticising of some relatively glorious past, whatever it may be. For example, in the case of Babylon and Sumer, Saddam Hussein often claimed he wanted in some respect restore their glory during his reign, as they were both mainly located in what's now Iraq, so those ancient civilizations have been used to attempt making Iraqis feel distinct from other Arabic-speaking nationalities. Another example, is how Gallic imagery has been referenced in French war propaganda.

I also think you’re overthinking what a unique component to a civ is supposed to represent. It doesn’t mean that civ made that thing first or was the only one to use it - it just means it is emblematic or representative of that civilization. While I dislike the hockey rink UI it is no doubt emblematic of Canada, and just because someone else invented the sport or another country also plays it doesn’t make that any less true.

Well, that was kind of my point, and something I forgot to mention, is that Civilization does provide a unique opportunity to take part in other countries' nationalisms. That is, unless you're that type of gamer, who only plays as their own country; my dad is a sad example of this, playing as nothing but Sweden, and thus missing out on a good chunk of the game's full content

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

So really, building a factory should not be something exclusive to Portugal - other nations got in on the act pretty soon.

Electronics Factory, Golf Course, Thanh (Citadel), Film Studio, and Palgum (Irrigation Canal), Thermal Bath, Lavra (Monastery), Tsikhe (Just Walls) says hello.

 

[Zaarin]

Merriam Webster's defines factory as : "a station where factors reside and trade eg a colonial factory." Isn't this the same as a feitoria? Asking honestly here.

Yes, my wording was poor. I meant that that usage is not typical in English, even in a historical sense.

I really disagree - how can there be “nationalism” for Babylon or Sumer for instance?

@BackseatTyrant beat me to the punch, but Saddam Hussein and other Iraqi nationalists drew (and still draw) heavily on Babylonian and Sumerian imagery. Hussein propaganda compared him directly to Nebuchadnezzar II and especially Sargon of Akkad, for instance. The Assyrians also draw heavily on their alleged descent from the Assyrian Empire in their nationalist rhetoric. Some Hungarian nationalists claim to be Sumerian (albeit the claim is a little rarer than descent from Huns). Modern nationalism draws heavily on the image of ancient empires.

 

[pokiehl]

I’m well aware but I’m not connecting the dots between that and the choice of UIs. What’s any of that got to do with say a palgum?

More broadly speaking, how is Saddam’s appropriation of Babylon affecting the games design of Babylon at all?

I was specifically responding to the claim that civ design in Civ is an appeal to nationalism.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Merriam Webster's defines factory as : "a station where factors reside and trade eg a colonial factory." Isn't this the same as a feitoria? Asking honestly here.

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Both the Dutch and the English East India Trading companies used the term 'Factory' to refer to an installation where Factors (company agents) handled trade. But, at least in the case of the English/British company, the Factories were started as single buildings - a combinations of a secure warehouse and accounting office, located in a port where lucrative trade (spices, cloth, luxury goods) originated. Only later were some of the most important expanded into larger fortified places, like Bombay Castle or Fort St George in India.