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Portugal

Discussion in 'Leader Balance' started by Funak, Oct 1, 2015.

  1. Atlas627

    Atlas627 Deity

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    Reducing Feitoria's yield is not a nerf, since opponents can capture the City State for those yields too. It might make it stronger, actually, since now I don't have to defend or take the City State myself.
     
  2. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    This, the vision, the increased yields, the ability to build them with Nau, they all just feels like band-aids. The core problem is in my opinion just that the Feitora isn't a very interesting unique. It by itself shuts down inland maps and the diplomatic victory condition, while providing nothing interesting in return.
    I think the Feitora is the one thing keeping Portugal from being one of the most awesome civs in the game.
     
  3. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

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    I don't know about that. I rather like being able to access city-states' luxuries without having to be allies with them. To me, the Nau is pretty boring. It's a regular Caravel that can cash in a few pay checks and build this other thing that I find useful. Portugal already has extra Gold from its Trade Routes, so the bonus Gold from Naus doesn't seem particularly impressive.
     
  4. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    Absolutely, the Nau's one redeeming feature is that it can place Feitoras, meaning that if the feitoras were gone the Nau would need a rework as well :D. Leading to Maria being the queen of awesome.
     
  5. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

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    Right. So, we either convince Gazebo to redo the UU and the UB (more effort), or to make the UB interesting (less effort). Or he happily does neither and uses his valuable time elsewhere.
     
  6. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    Your suggestion wouldn't make the UI interesting, it would make it slightly less boring :D. Not to mention that your suggestion would still leave the UU pretty meh.

    So it is a question of effort vs result, your suggestion would naturally be easier to implement. But I think mine would be a better solution and would actually make Portugal playable :D.



    By the way this isn't going anywhere, how about we discuss ideas for full reworks of the UI and UU and just see if we end up with an idea that actually usable, and see if we can peek G's interest? :D
     
  7. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    pique*

    No full reworks.
    G
     
  8. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

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    No reworks, then.

    Since the UI and the UU are more or less linked, I think that if the Feitoria were a more interesting tool, it would make the Nau more interesting as well.

    How about a combat bonus within 4 tiles of a Feitoria instead? You could establish a Feitoria in a City-State adjacent to your enemy then use it as an entry point to attack them. On the downside, it would also make it pretty easy to pick off the City-State if you choose to, but really that's not all that hard anyway. That conquered city-state could then be your fortified beachhead.

    A Feitoria like that set next to a natural choke point could also make a good ambush site.
     
  9. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    I have considered allowing the feitoria (with its yields reduced quite a bit) to be built in owned land as well on non-adjacent coastal plots. So it'd have two bonuses - defense and yields at home, yields and resources in CSs.

    G
     
  10. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

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    In that case, it would be coast adjacent and not adjacent to each other? A series of coastal defensive improvements does have some appeal. On the other hand, would that be too similar to Polynesia's combat near Maoi?
     
  11. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    Peek it! :D

    That's pretty much a full rework to me, you've completely changed the idea behind the Feitora at that point.

    Anyways I would go full crazy-mode and just remove the ability to build them in city-state territory, have them be powerful gold/production/food(maybe?) tiles on friendly coast-tiles, not buildable next to each other. This would make them a lot different from the Moai, which is a good startingpoint.
    Another idea could be making them stronger for every adjacent water-tile, but I have no idea what that would represent, would be a pretty interesting mechanic however, kinda like a reverse terrace farm.
     
  12. Edaka

    Edaka King

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    I find Nau interesting because it has the 'Retreat Before Melee' promotion. Although I don't think it has any more movement points than the caravel or the corvette to utilise it, does it? Increasing Nau's MP by 1 would result in a hilarious cath-me-if-you-can ship, if anyone is into that (I know I am) :) It would stress its scouting and establishing contacts with city states role, while its CS could reduced to compensate of needed.
     
  13. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Have considered in the past* - not really looking at it right now, just throwing it out there.

    Also, full rework means having to write custom code for DLL. If you look at the XML for the improvements, you'll see what we have access to.

    G
     
  14. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

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    If you made the Feitorias buildable on your own coasts, would it be difficult to allow ranged units on those tiles to have greater damage vs. Naval units? Maybe nullify the penalty that they have?
     
  15. Atlas627

    Atlas627 Deity

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    I don't really mind, but I just wanted to point out that building Feitoria's in your own land doesn't make much historical sense.

    Could we make Feitorias cause trade routes to that CS to give you influence?
     
  16. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    I'm sorry that you haven't realized this yet, but if I knew how to code anything or what an XML or a DLL was I would be doing more to help you than just spewing out nonsense like I currently do.


    Could be bent either way really. The feitora cities could techincally count as conquered, meaning they are your own lands. Switching the name of the improvement is also possible (I assume).

    Sounds weird to be honest, the Feitora currently completely opposes diplo-play by just not doing anything as soon as you're ally.
     
  17. Atlas627

    Atlas627 Deity

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    I think he was trolling you Funak.

    And while yes the Portuguese being encouraged to conquer their own Feitorias doesn't make much historical sense, them being encouraged to gain more control over a region by first building a Feitoria does make a lot of sense.

    I believe you still get the extra copies currently. It would be a good way to buff it so that it doesn't oppose diplo play because it does something regardless of diplo state (and compounds with the new yields from trading with CS allies)
     
  18. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    He wasn't. Programmers work that way, they just assume everyone else understands their mumbo-jumbo just because it is easy for them :D. Trust me I was forced to go a course in programming and all programmers act like that.

    You don't. The luxuries given by the CSes works exactly like the ones you get for allying, meaning you can't trade them.
     
  19. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    I'm not a programmer. Everyone has to start somewhere, and opening up an XML file to pique inside is a good way to start.

    G
     
  20. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    You're still mocking me? My vengeance will be swift.

    Also, you're definitely a programmer, maybe not a professional one but you're still a programmer.


    Anyways, can we go back to saving this city, I mean civ?
     

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