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Portugal

Discussion in 'Leader Balance' started by Funak, Oct 1, 2015.

  1. Atlas627

    Atlas627 Deity

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    Oddly enough, I have been teaching and writing since exiting school to be a programmer.

    On topic, I suggested the UI offer something similar to the policy that lets you gain influence per turn from a trade route to a CS. I believe you said before that these game mechanics for policies are located in a different format from those of the buildings and thus it was not easy to convert a game mechanic from one to the other. What format are improvements in, and do they share similarities with anything else?

    Is the reason why you don't want reworks is because of the workload involved for you personally? If you were to receive help with doing a rework, would it be on the table?
     
  2. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    I'm going to bring this up again as Gazebo couldn't give me a clear answer.
     
  3. Deadstarre

    Deadstarre Expert

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    i tried locating the improvements.xml he was pointing to and couldnt find any master one. just a bunch of files made for specific improvements in various dlc folders spread around but not the list i think he was referring to =( i tried lol
     
  4. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Sid Meier's Civilization V\Assets\DLC\Expansion2\Gameplay\XML\Terrain\CIV5Improvements.xml

    G
     
  5. Deadstarre

    Deadstarre Expert

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    that explains it. searching my install folder for "improvements.xml" wouldnt return that result because theres no space between "civ5" and "improvements" im guessing? anywhoo thanks =) gonna take a look later when i dont have family aggro
     
  6. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Alright, so the most common complaint seems to be that the Feitoria becomes redundant once you are allied with the CS. So, I need a simple idea for what the Feitoria can do for a player once they are allied to help round it out. With this, I think the Feitoria will become much more useful, and the Nau (by extension) becomes a more useful component of the UI.

    G
     
  7. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    That covers #3 but not any either of the problems I mentioned in my post earlier, just bringing that up.

     
  8. Deadstarre

    Deadstarre Expert

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    i looked thru the improvements list and actually found nothing that looked interesting other than the "culture bomb" effect =/ without stealing their land, which would still be useless most of the time, how else can you use anything in that list to turn a UI improvement on someone elses soil into something useful for yourself? i liked the code name for feitoria ability tho lol "siphon minor luxuries" but pretty much everything i saw there just had to do with base yields.

    (off topic, G have you been to the unit promotion thread anytime recently? your input there would be valued, i did a write up of scout promotions i was hoping for a response to)
     
  9. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    1. And the Incas need mountains, and Polynesia coastline, etc. etc. Some maps just won't benefit as much as others from UIs (which is what makes them unique). Not an issue.

    2. Random because of luxury, yes. But that's why a reliable, powerful effect on alliance is needed. This will be fixed if we add that.

    3. Fixed with alliance bonus.

    4. Only if necessary, and only if we don't have a powerful alliance bonus to make it worth the bonus versus conquest.

    5. Not if we give the feitoria an alliance element - at that point, alliance becomes comparable to conquest in terms of value.


    More of these issues are covered by the alliance element than you conceded.

    G
     
  10. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    Incas are fine with just hills, and as I mentioned as long as you yourself is in control of the terrain-requirement there is no problem, you can reroll or fight your way towards your terrain. However you have absolutely no control over how the city-states settle.
    Also, the Portuguese also already suffers from inland starts with their UU being of limited use and their UA providing slightly worse rewards.

    Maybe, I'll hold back this until I see someone figure out a powerful enough effect that doesn't take you half a kilometer of code :D

    Sure, but at this point you've gone from completely discourage diploplay to forcing it upon Portugal.


    That remains to be seen
     
  11. PurpleMentat

    PurpleMentat Videographer

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    I did some reading on the feitoria IRL. I would suggest (if possible with coding issues) that it provide:

    1) The luxuries it currently does
    They existed to bring local exotics back to Portugal for trade

    2) A city combat strength bonus to the city state
    The protection they offered was more wide-ranging than a single tile represents

    3) When in an allied city state, either gaining food and hammers from trade routes with that city state or an empire wide food bonus per trade route with that city-state.
    Portugal has enough 'generate cash' bonuses already. Gaining food and hammers from trade routes with preitoria-equipped allied city states provides a unique trade benefit to a civ who historically built themselves into a world power on the back of trade and politics. I also imagine that this is likely to be very code heavy, so a flat food bonus per allied city state with a preitoria could be an easier alternative that still offers similar flavor. Both options allow for Portugal to not focus heavily on Diplomacy while still getting the full benefit. One to three allied city states is reasonable for a human player to maintain control of without aiming for diplomatic victory.
     
  12. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    I like the third one. It'll work like an internal trade route (interface-wise) and the bonus will scale based on your gold income from the TR and your CS influence status (neutral/friend/ally).

    I'm also experimenting with removing the coastal requirement. We shall see.

    G
     
  13. Atlas627

    Atlas627 Deity

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    Yay, trade route to CS bonuses!

    Please keep the coastal requirement. It keeps it situational. I value some CS over others, due to them having coast. Otherwise it just becomes "keep all CS alive because more CS is always better", which there are plenty of civs for already.
     
  14. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    I am - experiments did not pan out.

    G
     
  15. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    Keep the coastal requirement, keeps the improvement completely dead on landbased maps along with the UU.

    I have to once again say that I'm REALLY not a fan forcing players to run city-state trade-routes, that by extension forces players to pick Patronage, and now you've locked Portugal into one victory-condition.
     
  16. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Running routes to CSs doesn't lock you into anything. Other civs have coastal requirements - this is part of civ.

    G
     
  17. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    It locks you into patronage to be able to gain any tourism out of your trade-routes to not fall behind and get crushed by ideology pressure. And going into patronage locks you into a patronage playstyle.



    I don't know how many times I'm going to have to repeat myself on this topic. It is a HUGE difference between a civ having coastal requirement and a civ relying on city-states being coastal.
    The first you have direct control over yourself, you can expand towards the water on the map, you can conquer coastal cities, or you can restart the game until you start coastally.
    The second you have absolutely ZERO control over, city-states spawn wherever they want and you can't move them, you can't restart until they spawn coastal (because you don't know where they actually are)
     
  18. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    I don't think I've ever seen a game (that has ocean/coast) where at least 2-3 CSs aren't on the coast, on EACH continent. You are making a big deal out of nothing. If you want to complain about how Portgual is bad on the Great Plains map, sure, fine, but that's your choice to pick the civ AND the map.

    G
     
  19. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    I do random, and while I could definitely re-roll if I get a stupid civ/map combination, I'm not going to reroll 120 turns into the game because I notice I got a Portugal AI on inland map. Those inland maps are hardly limited to great plains either. It also applies to Highlands, Canada, China, France, Lakes, Middle east, North America, Pangaea, Rainforest, Russia, Sandstorm, South America and Turkey, about half the mapscripts.
    Mapchoice and random chance aside, even if you would be right and there were 2 city-states on the coast on each map, do you think 2 city-states(possibly not even within trade-route distance) is enough to make this UI worth it?
     
  20. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Yes, because you only need one CS to proc the feitoria bonus for TRs to the CS.
    G
     

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