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Portugal

Discussion in 'Leader Balance' started by Funak, Oct 1, 2015.

  1. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    That's assuming you have enough cities that are able to connect trade-routes to it.
    I guess I didn't explain my point well enough again. So I'll split it into four separate questions, no rhetorical or troll questions or anything, just answer them seriously and honestly.

    1. Do you think being forced to run trade-routes to city-states (and specific city-states in this case) is fun?

    2. Do you think the TR yield bonus in one or two city-states is worth an entire unique slot? (Assuming you're not getting any use out of the luxury part, since you can't build feitoras in city-states with the luxuries you want)

    3. Do you think a UI that you're only able to build one or two times during a game would be fun?

    4. Do you think this UI could/would possibly be balanced properly between map-types? (Think a 2 coastal city-state pangea vs a 16 coastal city-state archipelago)
     
  2. Atlas627

    Atlas627 Deity

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    Please keep the coastal requirement. If the concern of getting unlucky with places to use it is a lack of fun, then perhaps the civ isn't for you. Using it everywhere is equally boring. If the concern of getting unlucky is for balance sake, then I would argue that can happen with all the uniques. Sometimes the Netherlands just doesn't get any flood plains, marshes, or lakes, no matter how hard you try. Sometimes Egypt doesn't get any quarries anywhere. Sometimes Portugal only gets a few coastal city states.

    If your concern is that they lose a significant amount of their unique abilities on no-water maps, so do a lot of civs. The game isn't balanced for those maps at all anyway.
     
  3. shaglio

    shaglio The Prince of Dorkness

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but Feitorias can be built on tiles adjacent to lakes, not just coast. Unless that was specifically changed in CBP (I only play with CP). At least they could the last time I played Portugal.
     
  4. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Yeah, coastal = lake/ocean, generally.

    G
     
  5. iwiws

    iwiws Chieftain

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    Could it be written in the civpedia description ?
    I mean, I just learnt it.
    I'm by no mean a civ5 expert, but I don't think I've read about the coastal-lake anywhere, so ... ;)
     
  6. shaglio

    shaglio The Prince of Dorkness

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    That's what I thought. It's been a long time since I played Portugal, but the last time I did was when the "Scrambled" maps came out. I played on the China map and chose Random leader and wound up with Maria I. My first thought was that I'd be gimped in where I can build Feitorias due to the limited coastline, but I was pleasantly surprised to find several CSs inland next to lakes. So, what I'm getting at is that Feitorias aren't mostly useless on Pangaea maps - as long as there are CS next to lakes you still have a chance.
     
  7. Der_Zorn_gottes

    Der_Zorn_gottes King

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    Does the Feitoria give strategic resources or only luxuries? I my last game, I buildt Feiorias all over the place, and still had a dearth of strategics.
    The Feitoria should connect resoources it is buildt upon (and by buildable on them). There was a CS that had three coastal tiles: One with an ebassy, and two with resoources. Nope, no Feitoria for me.
     
  8. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Only luxuries. Because of the way city-resource-improvement connectivity and improvement-ownership-construction work, Feitorias cannot be built on resources.

    G
     
  9. Der_Zorn_gottes

    Der_Zorn_gottes King

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    I had one Feitoria buildt on coal (which wasn`t revealed at that time). So if I was allied with that CS, and needed the coal, I would have been SOAL?

    And what about Feitoria providing strategics also? I think this would make them worthwhile to build. Portugal is not really in need of luxuries - everytime I play them I am drowning in GAs, which provide me with more than enough lux anyway.
     
  10. Atlas627

    Atlas627 Deity

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    So with all the buffs to trade routes, is the Portuguese UA really all that useful?
     
  11. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    You mean getting a ton of science and great admiral points from trade-routes? Yeah, it is.
     
  12. Atlas627

    Atlas627 Deity

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    Oh yes thanks I forgot about that part. I was talking about the doubling of gold from different luxuries, which I barely notice at all. I would suggest buffing it or removing it and putting that power elsewhere.
     
  13. Der_Zorn_gottes

    Der_Zorn_gottes King

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    I still want Feitioras to provide strategic resources also, since luxuries are very redundant with the free luxuries you get from your zounds of great admirals.
    I would gladly change the double gold bonus in for that.
     
  14. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    The double gold bonus is pretty negligible, you'd probably change it for pretty much anything :D

    That being said getting strategic resources would probably be too good.
     
  15. Atlas627

    Atlas627 Deity

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    I believe G said it can't be done.

    Yeah the double gold bonus was a big deal in vanilla, but now its just...I dont even notice it.
     
  16. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    We could increase the gold bonus. I think it's an integer value.

    G
     
  17. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    I don't actually think that is needed, the other part of the UA is great. I was mostly pointing out that the gold gained from it is negligible.

    I still don't like the Feitoria, but the Portuguese UA is great.
     
  18. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    I've been thinking about the feitoria lately. We could make it buildable in owned land as a no-adjacent coastal UI that buffs coastal tiles. Since Portugal wants to be on the coast anyways (and can control this to a certain extent with settling), this makes sense. The Nau would still create feitorias in CS lands (And siphon bonuses from them, as it does now), but it'd also have domestic use.

    G
     
  19. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    So what are the yields going to be at that point? Personally never been a big fan of buffing adjacent tiles (if that's what you meant) a far bigger fan of getting buffed for each adjacent coast-tile(feels more interesting)
     
  20. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    I'm thinking about existing functionality (we have code and AI logic already in place for making adjacent things stronger).

    I'd probably give it Gold and Production as a base (Feitoria = Factory = Trading Post), 25% CS defense, and +1 Gold on adjacent coastal tiles. Or perhaps +1 Gold +1 Production on adjacent Fishing Boats and Plantations if we want to make it have more punch.

    G
     

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